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Dan
Junior Member
Username: jacksandoscars

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 08:12 pm:       

Hey guys,
I have a small 10g tank at home and I'm just starting to stock it. My mom used it up until last week and it's been up and running for 3 months before that. I tested the water to make sure it's good (ph and ammonia wise) and it's ready for more fish. Right now I have a small upside down catfish, 1 cory, and a small rafael catfish. What kind of fish would you guys suggest? All livebearers except bettas are out. My thoughts were to get another cory as I'd prefer they have companions and get 1 male betta and 3 females. I think this would be a beautiful and fun-to-look-at tank. What do you guys think of that? Any other suggestions as to fish?
20g Tank - 1 dwarf gourami, 2 pearl gourami, 2 honey gourami, 4 corydoras, 1 small pleco
10g tank - 3 male and 7 female guppies. 2 corydoras.
*80g tank - coming soon!
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Garrett
Advanced Member
Username: happiegilmor49

Post Number: 1086
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 08:19 pm:       

Unfortunately, there are going to be some issues with your current stocking. First Raphael catfish can get up to 8 inches. The upside down catfish, I'm not sure about. The cory could be ok, depending on what size it is and you could perhaps get two more, although it would not be ideal for them. Male bettas should not be kept with female bettas, someting I learned the hard way. You could get one male betta and the trio of cories if they are are smaller. What kind are they?


And as a side note, bettas are not live bearers. They build bubble nests to lay eggs in, then the males guard them fiercely. This is similar to gouramis.
I <3 the mods!
especially that loachy JP
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Mike L
Regular Member
Username: mafrenzy

Post Number: 127
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 09:53 pm:       

I would go with the cori trio and a male betta. You could also get an otto if you want. Nothing colorful because the betta might attack them depending on his temperiment.
"Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins" Peter 4:8
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Dan
Junior Member
Username: jacksandoscars

Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 09:28 pm:       

The rafael in a 10g tank will only grow to around 2.5 inches or so. They don't grow uncontrolably I've read. I got this info from a couple of sources as well as a local fish expert. He assured me if he's wrong I can bring it back for full refund. The upside down is actually going to be leaving soon to one of our 20g tanks as they can grow to 3 inches or so.

I figured in the end on keeping the betta with 3 cories 1 albino, 1 juli, and 1 spotted and I'm not sure about a female. We have a beta in our largest tank 33g with angel fish (small), platys, swordtails, and tetras. I guess it just matters if you bought a mean sonofagun betta or a laid back kind of guy :P. I'll be sure to watch very carefully if I have problems with the female. I might even think about a tank divider and just keeping 2 males.
20g Tank - 1 dwarf gourami, 2 pearl gourami, 2 honey gourami, 4 corydoras, 1 small pleco
10g tank - 3 male and 7 female guppies. 2 corydoras.
*80g tank - coming soon!
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Garrett
Advanced Member
Username: happiegilmor49

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 09:38 pm:       

See if you can get 3 of one kind of corys, they'll be much happier.

Sadly, the raphael wont grow past 2.5 inches. He will undoubtably stunt and suffer serious health problems. I'd bring him back for the full refund.
I <3 the mods!
especially that loachy JP
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April
Advanced Member
Username: jumpingtadpoles

Post Number: 1211
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 11:41 pm:       

The rafael in a 10g tank will only grow to around 2.5 inches or so. They don't grow uncontrolably I've read. I got this info from a couple of sources as well as a local fish expert. He assured me if he's wrong I can bring it back for full refund.

Hmm, you may want to take a step back, and think logically about this...
This si a quote that I think sorta applies to you as well, although this is a larger tank you are asking the same sense of a question...
would suggest you go with as big as your space and money can afford. The more water the easier to maintain it is, as there is more water to dilute toxins that are naturally produced. I generally recommend 20+ for beginners. No matter what size of tank you have you need to do weekly water changes, of at least 50%.
A 1 gallon, in many peoples eyes is not even appropriate for even a single betta, myself included. Fish just require more space than any 1 gallon can provide. I STRONGLY believe that anything under 2.5g should be removed from the market, and even better would be everything under 5g. Although I have no problems with a betta living in 2.5g, it just allows beginners to be mislead, misinformed and mistreated by LFS. They would tell you that guppys, platy's and various other aquatic beings can live in that size of tank, they are incredibly wrong. They need to reconsider that when many of those beginners lose a bunch of fish they give up, when if they had encouraged them into something larger they would be coming back for more fish in the end, because MTS would set in and they will want bigger more personable fish...
That's what happened to all of us.
Hello my name is April, and I have MTS...
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/16/53708.html?11405810 63
Also I think you may need to read some more...
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/432.htm
http://species.fishindex.com/species_2320platydoras_costatus_striped_raphael_cat fish.html
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/doradida/agamyxis/313_F.PHP
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/doradida/platydor/166_F.PHP

And well, if that doesn't help you understand why/howcome fish do not grow to the sizr of the tank, we can always go with one of my favourite guru's, Dan's words on the subject stunting...
I looked everywhere for this, is it in the badmans best, cause it should be if it's not!)

"growing to the size of the tank ... another of those myths that are killing fish throughout the hobby.

a fish can and will grow to its genetically predetermined size IF properly maintained. operative word = properly. fish maintained in tanks which are too small or in conditions which are too crowded, develop severe stress syndrome.

these fish do not exhibit proper color, do not develop proper fin form, do not exhibit proper metabolic development, do not exhibit normal behaviour, do not develop proper musculature, do not develop properly functioning organ systems and as a result, slowly lose their inherant resistance to disease. this results in a significantly shortened lifespan and along the way, lots of diseases for which the poorly conditioned fish is a good target.

so eric, what happens is not that the fish doesn't grow as large as it's supposed to ... it's that it dies before it has a chance to grow.

now i know you don't want to kill your clown loaches prematurely, right? thus, get a much bigger tank or return those clowns in exchange for fish that will not exceed about 3 inches TL.

also, inches of fish has no bearing on how many fish can successfully be maintained in a given tank volume. it's yet another myth. far more important is the mass of the fish. look at a 2 inch goldfish and compare it with a 2 inch zebra danio. see that huge "mass" difference? THAT'S what counts. another analogy ... do you think a ten inch oscar is the equivalent of 10 one inch tetra? it should be obvious that the oscar represents MUCH more fish than the tetra ... the latter can be nicely housed in a ten gallon tank while the oscar doesn't have a chance.

and finally, the number and size of the fish you keep in your tank should be based on several factors. it should not be based solely on the chemistry of your water nor on the magic of the inch per gallon myth. it's more than simply a matter of successfully keeping the ammonia and nitrites at zero or the fact that you may have "great filtration". certainly these are important issues, but one of the most important factors is almost always overlooked. the number and size of fish that one maintains in a tank should be predicated on the "biology" and behaviour of those fish.

this means that the interraction of a mixed community tank and/or the behaviour of a single species is the single most important factor to consider. you want the fish you're keeping to have the ability to exhibit "normal" and functional behaviour. normal behaviour is important. abnormal behaviour results in stress. stress leads to disease. disease can lead to death. for example:

1. if species (A) does not get along with species (B), then these fish don't belong in the same tank no matter how few fish you have or how large the tank. "getting along" is based on the visual and behavioural Q's that each fish species is genetically programmed with. this is why African cichlids don't belong in the same tank with Central American cichlids for example. Africans don't "understand" Central American fish speak and this leads to behavioural problems and stress.

2. if species (A) has specific food or water chemistry requirements which are completely different from species (B), then these fish don't belong in the same tank no matter how large it is.

3. if species (A) is aggressive and defends a territory of 2 square feet, then you cannot expect to successfully keep more than one of these fish in a tank which is smaller than 2 square feet. convict cichlids are an excellent example of this ... this little fish aggressively defends territories of about two square feet give or take. if you have a tank which allows only that much room and no more, the convict will defend the entire tank to the detriment of any other fish (no matter how large it is) in that tank.

fish need room to swim without having the rest of the tanks inhabitants "in their face" continuously. when crowded, fish exhibit stress syndromes that result in poor color, improper fin form, insufficient metabolic development, do not exhibit proper musculature, do not develop properly functioning organ systems and most importantly slowly lose their inherant resistance to disease. this results in a significantly shortened lifespan and along the way, lots of diseases for which the poorly conditioned fish is a good target..

think about your local lake or river --- the fish are free to inhabit whatever space suits them biologically. if it gets crowded by their standards, some will disperse and move to other areas where they again have the space they need to exhibit functional behaviour.

it's difficult to allow for that "space" in your tank -- the fish have no escape within the confines of your tank so it's up to you to insure that the fish have that space in the first place. if your tank "looks bare" .. it's probably just right."
}
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/231/48226.html
Dream big, celebrate life, and never stop learning.
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Dan
Junior Member
Username: jacksandoscars

Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 07:51 pm:       

Hmm I deffinetly see what you're talking about with the rafael. I think I might move him to my other 20g tank. I think that would be adequate for him unless he gets Really big. In which case if any of my 3 rafaels get large I'll move them into the new 80g tank when it's ready. My mom has a very small pleco (maybe only even 1 inch atm) that I will put in his place until he grows further. As to the corys I picked up 3 more albinos as they seem to work/play/socialize the most out of all the cories we have :D. And lastly to the betta he is in the tank now with a divider between him and 6 gupys. These guppies are leaving the tank soon (I hope, a friend is taking them from me :P) and Im thinking on getting 2 females for the other side of the divider. That way every now and again I can open up and let the fish meet and greet each other and still have a fallback if s/he don't get along.

Sound good to everyone?

PS I had a chat with the LFS guy and he assured me that this catfish doesn't get "stunted" in a smaller tank but literally grows to it's environment. I asked him if he wasn't putting forth a bit of an oxymoron by saying so and he told me that he assures me that it won't grow passed 2.5 inches... Which brought us about in a whole nother circle... Sounds like he was just trying to make the sale.

PSps I usually do extensive research before buying and new kind of fish using a few sources (my book, a few sites, and sometimes peoples own opinions) but this time I confided in the so-called experienced LFS worker... Never again (they got me first by saying chinese algae eaters only grow to 1.5 inches 4 monthes ago when I first started this hobby... They're all at like 3 already :D!)
20g Tank - 1 dwarf gourami, 2 pearl gourami, 2 honey gourami, 4 corydoras, 1 small pleco
10g tank - 3 male and 7 female guppies. 2 corydoras.
*80g tank - coming soon!
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colleen
Regular Member
Username: swirl360

Post Number: 377
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:04 pm:       

The raphael probably wont grow more than 2.5 inches. I'll give the sales man that point. However, he didn't tell you the reason. That is the largest size it will reach before dying an early death due to being kept in inadequate conditions. Sometimes, fish store employees(not me though!) will tell you the truth, but only PART of the truth!
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Michael Bryant
Advanced Member
Username: michaelb

Post Number: 2103
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:17 pm:       

If I were you, I would be looking around for another "local fish expert" where I hopefully could get accurate and honest answers to my questions. From that absurd revelation, the "expert" monicker I assume, was self imposed! And folks wonder why this hobby is so difficult and contradictory....sheesh!
Many seek advice, only the wise profit from it.
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Dan
Junior Member
Username: jacksandoscars

Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 12:23 am:       

Yeah,
Deffinetly not fair to me or the fish. The rafael is now in a 20g tank with MANY hiding places and I went out and got 2 more albino corys just 4 hours back. So right now the guppys still share the tank with the beta (he's behind a divider and everyone is actually doing good...). I don't like dividers as it kind of limits the tanks. Until I can move out the guppys I'll have to use it.

Do you guys think it would be safe to let the corys pass through the bottom? I mean if I lift the screen do you think he'd try and go under :P? I put him in with the guppys for a while and he wasn't even interested in them... I'd just like them to comb the whole tank and not just 80%.
20g Tank - 1 dwarf gourami, 2 pearl gourami, 2 honey gourami, 4 corydoras, 1 small pleco
10g tank - 3 male and 7 female guppies. 2 corydoras.
*80g tank - coming soon!
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Musicalfingers
Advanced Member
Username: musicalfingers

Post Number: 1278
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 02:00 am:       

If your betta gets along with the guppies, why bother having the divider? As long as everyone's happy together, they can share the tank together. If you notice aggression, I would separate them, but otherwise you should be okay.
Out of insanity comes brilliance...or was it the other way around?
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April
Advanced Member
Username: jumpingtadpoles

Post Number: 1237
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 02:31 am:       

I feed my boy guppy fry, but for some reason he let 2 of the... umm 30 or so... grow up. he gets around 3-4 every week, if I have a drop. But he allowed 2 to grow. They are beginning to get their colors, and the gal is getting gravid. Soon I'll bring them to the LFS. (I hate knowing they are going into water with 110ppm nitrate )
My point being that some will live just fine with other fish, including ones that say they won't, Heck I have heard of 2 boys living happily together. You just never know what your going to get with bettas, but you need to be aware of the risks, and prepared to step in....
Dream big, celebrate life, and never stop learning.
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Dan
Junior Member
Username: jacksandoscars

Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 11:15 pm:       

That's so true. We have 1 betta who lives with tetras/platys and another that lives with a few gouramis and some swordtails. I'll open the divider some day when I have 20 min. to watch him nonstop :P. If I see him spreading his fins and such I won't freak out... But if he does go for one I'll just pop the divider back in place.
20g Tank - 1 dwarf gourami, 2 pearl gourami, 2 honey gourami, 4 corydoras, 1 small pleco
10g tank - 3 male and 7 female guppies. 2 corydoras.
*80g tank - coming soon!
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stephen pontious
New Member
Username: stephenpp9

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 08:37 pm:       

hello all i just have 2 questions i have a 10 gallon tank with 1 molley 3 guppies 1 catfish and an algae eater i want a angel fish so bad would i be ok ? and my other question is are undergravel filters better than regular filters ? thanks

stephen
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Michael Bryant
Advanced Member
Username: michaelb

Post Number: 2159
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 08:50 pm:       

angel question already answered in your other post. not a huge fan of undergravel filters either!
Many seek advice, only the wise profit from it.
Badman's Tropical Fish - Archives * Beginner Freshwater * Stocking a 10g tank       

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