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maura
New Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 05:02 pm:       

I currently have four tanks - a 55 with mollies, platys, swords, neons and two Juli corys. This tank is established, happy and fairly well stocked. Only change I would like to make is to add a few more neons and corys. The other tanks are two 20s, one with a bunch of fancy guppies and two spotted cories, one with lots of guppy fry, and a 5 G with guppy fry. I have just started to attempt to add live plants to my tanks.

What I would like to do weed out/give away most of the guppies and end have 1 20g with the best of them (12 - 14 at most) and the two spotted cories (who are very good at controlling fry).

Then, I would love to get one male betta for the 5G, and and 5 - 6 angels for the other 20, perhaps with a bottom feeder or two.

Is this workable? Anything I should beware of? Any suggestions?
Have I lost my mind?
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dan
Moderator
Username: dan

Post Number: 6744
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 05:23 pm:       

a twenty gallon tank tall/high is a reasonable size for a breeding pair of angel fish but far too small for 5-6.
you're never too old to have a happy childhood.
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Michael Bryant
Advanced Member
Username: michaelb

Post Number: 2203
Registered: 07-2004


Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 05:33 pm:       

Dan is correct. If your desire is to buy 5-6 juvenile Angels hoping to get a pair from them, it will work short term. As they grow however, distinguishing pairing displays, and outright feuds over territory, may be a little hard to distinguish for the uninitiated. If you are fortunate enough to find a mature breeding pair, and can afford to get them, a 20 tall tank can work as Dan stated.
Many seek advice, only the wise profit from it.
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maura
New Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 08:24 pm:       

You both mentioned 20 talls, I have 20 longs. Would 2 angels in a 20 L have enough swimming room?
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dan
Moderator
Username: dan

Post Number: 6752
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 06:59 am:       

because angels grow vertically (those tall dorsal fins and ventral extensions), they really need the height in order to grow properly. this is a fairly sedentary species and don't need the horizontal swimming room. if your interested in breeding this fish, trade in one of those 'longs' for a 'tall' or get a larger (taller tank).
you're never too old to have a happy childhood.
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maura
New Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 09:12 am:       

Really what I'm looking for is something for the 20G that's a reasonable step in money and/or difficulty from the beginner community fish that I have now. (see above)I just liked the look of angels, but won't try to put them in an unsuitable environment. Also trying to avoid an investment in new equipment!

What would you recommend for my extra 20L that's a reasonable step up?
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Musicalfingers
Advanced Member
Username: musicalfingers

Post Number: 1432
Registered: 07-2005


Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 07:58 pm:       

Parrotfish? I've recently become enamored with these guys. They're so cute, with little chubby cheeks and big wide eyes!
http://www.elmersaquarium.com/image_fish/01_Cichlid__RED_PARROT.jpg

I dunno...they're cuter in person. Also, I'm not sure if they'd be okay for a 20 gallon tank, someone who's actually kept them will have to tell you that! If they are, though, I won't be replacing any of my tetras that died! Parrotfish...parrotfish... :-)
Out of insanity comes brilliance...or was it the other way around?
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maura
New Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 09:53 pm:       

Cichlids = next step up from beginner fish?????
Really???????????????
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Musicalfingers
Advanced Member
Username: musicalfingers

Post Number: 1437
Registered: 07-2005


Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 10:23 pm:       

Supposedly they're "intermediate" fish, but that's according to PetsMart. Someone else here may have an opinion on that...
Out of insanity comes brilliance...or was it the other way around?
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Musicalfingers
Advanced Member
Username: musicalfingers

Post Number: 1439
Registered: 07-2005


Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 07:26 pm:       

Well apparently parrots can't be kept in a 20 gallon tank, sorry about that! Hmmm...do you like tetras? I have a mix of bloodfin tetras, harlequin rasboras, and panda cory catfish in my 20. It's a very nice mix :-)
Out of insanity comes brilliance...or was it the other way around?
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maura
Junior Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 07:39 pm:       

Hi, Music. Yes, I did some research/reading after reading your post and first of all, yes, they're very appealing fish, and it does sound like putting them in a 20 is a bad idea, especially since I like to keep pets to a ripe old geriatric age. More/bigger tanks are not an option. Unless someone here posts some other questions, I will go with a mix of tetras (other than neons.) I'll have to look up rasboras.

Thanks!
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Kim
Advanced Member
Username: kimrin

Post Number: 2281
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 08:02 pm:       

Hi Maura :-) what were you thinking in regards to a step up from beginner fish?

Besides certain cichlids which often require exceptionally good maintenance all fish need the same things. Fresh water, food and appropriate habitat. I guess I don't distinguish much as far as rating them goes.

Are you interested in breeding? That can be more challenging. A pair of Ram cichlids or Apisto's are beautiful, challenging to breed but not hard to keep and well suited to a 20long.
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8468
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 08:10 pm:       

i have never thought of any fish as a "beginner" fish. Some are more difficult to keep than others. But, beginner--don't know about that tag.

I have always thought of it as "committed",
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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maura
Junior Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:29 pm:       

Please go back and read my original post re: numbers of tanks and types of fish. Two of my tanks have been up for 2 - 3 years, I moved them successfully with no fish loss. A couple of my fish are 'originals' from my first 5G tank, several more are first, second and third generations that have bred in the community tanks. However, I have never spent than $4 on an individual fish. AND I've stuck to community fish. AND I've just started a tentative experiment with live plants. That's what I mean by beginner. What I'm looking for are some 'real life' suggestions on what might be an appropriate small step up from what I've done so far; that won't result in 1.) lots of new equipment or supplies 2.) a drastic increase in maintenance (I pretty much do water changes/cleaning on Saturday mornings; the fry tank that's overstocked I do water changes 2 - 3X a week) 3.) dead fish due to my inexperience 4.) lotsa money.
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Musicalfingers
Advanced Member
Username: musicalfingers

Post Number: 1448
Registered: 07-2005


Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 12:38 am:       

Well, I'm a $4-$5 fish person myself...the panda cory cats can be a little more expensive though ($6-$7). What exactly are you looking for? What do you like? Angels might be nice if you have a tall tank.
Out of insanity comes brilliance...or was it the other way around?
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maura
Junior Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 09:52 pm:       

Musical, appreciate your input, however, if you read from the top of the thread down, I started out considering angels and discarded the idea as I have a 20L to work with.

Any other ideas out there for stocking a 20 L?
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Michael R. Monroe
Advanced Member
Username: mrmonroe

Post Number: 1200
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 11:24 pm:       

20L stocking ideas:

3 Apistos 1M 2F
6 Albino Cories
10-14 Emerald eye Rasboras
5 otos if algea becomes a problem.

This tank should be heavily planted with driftwood and rocks to form caves and hiding spots. The Apistos will give you that next step up in fishy difficulty you are looking for. Plus they are beautiful fish. Also the challenge of plants is also something that can drive you bonkers.
The following statement is true. The previous statement was false.
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maura
Junior Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 15
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:08 pm:       

Michael, thanks so much for your answer. I looked up photos of the apistos and they do look appealing, however, I think I would need to tear down my tank and start over with sand substrate. What do you think? I also spent some time at the local Petsmart, and shopping online. (overlooking 1.) all the dead fish and 2.) bad info on the tank tags at PetsMart) I wondering if the easiest segue for my second guppy tank isn't a couple of different varieties of tetras...maybe 6 Blood fins and 6 long skirt minors? With some cories for the bottom? Also saw a clown loach...wow! would love to work one of those into one of my tanks!

Any advice or suggestions?

PS to musical -- saw some wonderful Parrot Cichlids. They're quite delightful, but I can't imagine keeping them in anything less than a 55. Even my desire to rescue them didn't tempt me.....
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Gopi
Advanced Member
Username: gopi

Post Number: 1769
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:23 pm:       

Clown loaches need friends and get quite big and I wouldn't want to start one out in 20L.

I had 6 botia striata (zebra loaches) in my 20L, quite delightful, but loaches too would appreciate a sand substrate.

I think, it would be nice for the 20L to stick with one type of tetra and have a slgihtly larger school. I had 8 glowlite tetras in mine. (If you are wondering about the past tense, I have since upgraded to a 33 ) The bloodfins get a bit bigger than the glowlights I had, but I think you could do 8-10...(Or, I would and just not tell)

I couldn't find anything on long skirt minors though...Maybe a long fin red minor? or just a black or white skirt tetra?
There! You have a bigger tank! Will you stop plotting my death now??
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Musicalfingers
Advanced Member
Username: musicalfingers

Post Number: 1468
Registered: 07-2005


Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 12:45 am:       

Gopi, my bloodfins are smaller than my glowlights were. Well, maybe a little bit longer, but not nearly as "big" body-wise. Glowlights are fun fish too, but not as active as bloodfins.
Out of insanity comes brilliance...or was it the other way around?
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maura
Junior Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 16
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 06:45 am:       

Gopi,

My memory for exactly what was on the tag at the lfs isn't great, but these long skirt tetras almost looked like angel fish, without barbs. They were quite big bodied though, probably better off doing a school of blood fins; probably couldn't do a big enough school in a 20.

Are clown loaches okay with 1 buddy or do they really need a school? And how big do they get? Maybe I could make room in my 55....

I have MTS...
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Gopi
Advanced Member
Username: gopi

Post Number: 1770
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 07:58 am:       

Music- Don't have bloodfins. All I did was search for sizes and the bloodfins came up larger than the glowlites, so I was going off that.

Maura-
With loaches, you get better activity the larger the group. Stress goes down with buddies and you get more of the natural, hilarious behavior. You would want at least 6, the don't really "school" but there is a loachy dance and they are quite social. Clown's can get 12+ inches. They would be doable in a 55 short term. Plus, they can live forever (just about). Shari has some that are um, 14-15 years old?
There! You have a bigger tank! Will you stop plotting my death now??
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maura
Junior Member
Username: quinndehart

Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 01:03 pm:       

Took approx. 3 dozen adolescent (small, but showing color and sex) fancy guppies to the lfs yesterday. Just in time too, was doing water changes constantly to keep them alive. Traded them for 1 male betta for my 5 gal., 1 new platy for my 55, and 4 Serpae Tetras for one of the 20 gal guppy tanks.

Continuing to sort out guppies and fry, will bring another couple of dozen to lfs next week, trade for a few more Serpae tetras and another type of Tetra, haven't decided which yet. (Help me - while I was there I was considering a 20T or 29 Hex so I could have angels - this is a terrible disease.)

Blue Male Betta seems very happy in the five gallon with heater and filter. Have two female gups in there with him for company. Thanks to all for all the patience and good advice. Will keep you posted.
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