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Crystalview
New Member
Username: crystalview

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 02:43 pm:       

I have never held a diatom filter and was wonder of the ease of use. I thought to run it as a pre-filter most of the time and then when needed add the DE for a better filter of parasites.
I have also seen online Pentair Aquatics; Lifegard; Aquarium Filter System Aquarium Mechanical Filters and was also wondering if they would be easy to change the filter. I know either of these are overkill but I get to much build-up in my fluval and those sponges are not cheap.
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Crystalview
Junior Member
Username: crystalview

Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 03:13 pm:       

Ok I just saw a previous post that the Diatom removes ich but you all said you only run it for a short time not all the time like I would like to do. Does it overheat or something if run all the time?
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8607
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 03:35 pm:       

diatom filters are advertised to solve ich. not always the case. do you have ich in the tank? usually much easier and cheaper to solve with meds.

diatom filters capture extremely small matter, do you have a lot of "stuff" in the tank?

what kind of fish?
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Crystalview
Junior Member
Username: crystalview

Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 04:42 pm:       

I want to get something to capture all the build up that already goes into my fluval. I thought of a magnum or diatom filter because the sponges being rinsed out so often in the canister won't stand up to that. I am new to this and tend to over feed and my fish go on strike waiting for worms. I know the magnum is easy to rinse out. Overkill I know but with an upcoming surgery my husband has never taken care of the tank.
I don't know how easy the diatom is to clean. I have not had my tank in the summer months yet and with all the natural light (not sun) I will have algae. I already had a bloom (grn H2O)
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8608
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 08:01 pm:       

so, i guess the real question is the best way to care for the tank? What type of filtration.....is needed to assure that the fish do well while the husband is doing the job for you. (don't worry too much, sometimes us guys do ok in a pinch. especially when we are trying to make sure the wife is cared for).

How big is the tank (gallons)? what type of fish and how many of each are in there? how is it decorated (real plants, fake plants, decorations, rock caves....)?

Don't worry about fish on strike---when they get hungry enough they will eat whatever you feed them. What are you feeding (brands an type of foods)?

what type of filter is on there now? how many gallons per hour is it rated for?
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Crystalview
Junior Member
Username: crystalview

Post Number: 14
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Saturday, April 08, 2006 - 09:57 pm:       

It is not just the husband. I am new to this also (Nov). I would have to write a book on the learning process I have gone thru and the failures.
I know that I would like to add another filter to the Fluval 104 which for now is routed into the Eclipse 12. To keep these filters clean from fish that will not eat flakes and an owner who keeps trying to feed it to them (after period of fasting). All my equipment is used or given to me! If I could figure out a way to make the Hot Magnum I have external I would and hook it into the system for the easy to clean pre-filter. I hope to put everything into a 30g extra high that I got from Freecycle but I took it to be resealed at the FS and they broke it. They ordered a new one for next week. I have a Eclipse (2) hood which I will remove the impeller and route the fluval into. All this filtration is overkill for a 30g but the build-up is bad. I know when I change to the new tank I will be bleaching (and neutralizing)to kill algae. I can't seem to just brush out the output tube to solve the problem. It is no where else. I still see a slight build-up on the pad I have in the eclipse 12. I keep the tank brushed every couple of weeks and there doesn't seem to be algae there.
Wow I still wrote a book Sorry!
Fish for 30g
2 ADF's
1 Otto 1/2"
2 Gourami's
4 Neon's
2 Royal Gold Barbs
1 Purple Blood Parrot (same size as Gourami's for now) It's Parents are only 5" fully grown
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8612
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 08:31 am:       

Barbus sachsi is the fish i am assuming is what is being called the Royal Gold Barb. The rest i got a handle on. sort of. gourami needs a little clarification.

You have a 12 gallon aquarium, right? Moving everyone to a 30.

A Fluval 104 is more than enough to handle that tank--even on a bad day, with clogged sponges, and an entire container of food tossed in there. It turns something between 130 and 300 gallons an hour (i believe flow rate is adjustable). your fish can be overpowered if the filter is running wide open.

When you get to the 30 the fluval ought to be just right. that is the low end of the tank size it is spec'ed for. Right now, in a small tank it is most likely part of the problem. A filter with that capacity will cause enough water flow that it is difficult for the fish to eat the flakes swirling about the tank. And, it will suck the flakes out of the tank faster than the can be eaten. Creates a hecko f a mess. And, as you increase quantity to "fix" the problem you make it worse. As flake, or other food, volume is increased to assure that fish get enough to eat in that environment you add the possibility of over fed. when they do end up getting more than enough to eat, they have more than the normal poop--what goes in must come out.

So stop. trust me. fish will eat. you may feel cruel and mean out waiting, don't. fish will eat. it is much more cruel to continue down the path you are on. One of the problems with overfeeding is the "mess" in the water column. Another is the mess in the filter itself. A third is the proliferation of algae. You have all three. Almost a grand slam--lol.

The next two problems are something i am guessing may be happening in your tank (given the first post in the thread) but have not yet, obviously, made the radar screen. Fish food is "organic". Has to be to help the fish. Fish food is also food for bacteria and parasites. Both of which exist in all our tanks at some level. We keep them knocked back to a safe population through attention to water changes, filter cleaning, and water changes. But, in your instance you are probably riding the edge of the envelope. As the food sits in the tank it decays. It then increases Dissolved Organic Compounds in the water column--a lot of the parasites you never notice are being given lots of food--DOC's are what they feed on. Bacteria (like a columnaris) will feast on the decaying food. You have a tank that, at least to me, sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Regardless of what you are doing it has to change. The change is certainly far more compassionate than letting things go on the way they are. Once again you need to bite the bullet, feel like a meany, and do what is right for the fish (not your heart). Feed the fish 2x-3x daily. only that amount of food that is consumed in a minute or so, without accumulation on the substrate. When fish get hungry they will eat--you just have to figure out a way to turn down the filter flow to give them a chance.

just a thought that went through my head--if I could hold out and eat only 4-6 oz petite fillets every day that is all I would eat. that little morsel is probably the finest cut of meat devised by a butcher. Better yet, if I could get away with it, all I would eat are 28 oz Porterhouses. But, I can't get away with either option/ I have this woman I married a long time ago that refuses to put up with my "little boy" and she makes me eat other stuff, or starve. my survival instinct cuts in, and my pants start falling to my knees making me look funny in public (at least funnier than usual), so I do eat other stuff that i really do not enjoy as much as the petite fillets or porterhouses.

Back to your fish. We got feeding under control (at least in theory. repeat after me--"I am the human. I will be the responsible one." raising fish is sort of like raising kids. jsut a little determination and everything seems to work out.) So let's move on to the tank.

I do not know how you clean the tank now. What you "need" to get to is a weekly water change frequency. And, change at least 1/2 the water every week. If you are not at this minimum level of care now do not suddenly start it. Instead, begin by changing about 25% of the water 2-3 times for the next week. then fall back to at least 50% once a week. Get a gravel vac. Perform gravel vacs along with the water changes. Get the "stuff" out of your substrate. That will keep it from the filter and feeding little varmints in the water column.

Now to the fish. Don't buy anymore. You have too many--even for a 30 gallon extra high (whatever the heck that is).
-the barbs and the neons are an interesting mix. i would not be surprised to see the neons go through a mysterious banishing act--especially when adding in the presence of some type of gouramis and a parrot. Really need to know "what type of gouramis?"

When you move the fish to the 30 later this week.
--DO NOT BLEACH EVERYTHING.
-USE THE EXISTING FLUVAL FILTER
-USE THE EXISTING SUBSTRATE
-USE THE EXISTING WATER.


You can rinse the substrate. You can gently rinse the filter media in dechlorinated water. Or the water you removed from the tak during one of the water changes you are doing over the next several days. Ther is a very easy to read article in the "library" section found at the top of the main board page. http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/27480/42904.html?1094990785 > Go read it. You need to keep the good bacterial colony that is alive and well in your filter just that way. Alive and well. Bleaching it, or rinsing it in plain tap water will kill it. in turn killing many of your fish. And, opening up several disease problems in the survivors--if any.

My fingers are tired. Read what we've got so far. think about. come back and post again. we will write a little book to guide both you and hubby through this without problems/

I hope your surgery is not too major and that you come through it quickly and easily.

(jp==more people will get involved if we move this to GMA)
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9912
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 09:28 am:       

Crystal, like Sully said, instead of adding filters, go to the source of the problem. Feed less.

You seem to want to add another filter because you don't want to open the filter you have and clean it as often as it needs to, due to your overfeeding. Adding another filter means you'll need to open two of them to clean them, it won't save you (or your husband) any time.

The obvious solutions, repeating Sully's and adding a couple of my own:
-Feed less.
-Turn the filter off while feeding, if necessary.
-Use the gravel vac or a turkey baster to remove uneaten food before it is sucked up into the filter.
-Rinse the sponges as often as necessary, as soon as your flow slows down.
-If you won't feed less and must add a filter, one that is more easily maintained, add a powerfilter, one that hangs on the back, so you can rinse the cartridge weekly, even every other day if you need to.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Crystalview
Junior Member
Username: crystalview

Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 04:53 pm:       

2 Barbus sachsi
1 Dwarf Gourami
1 Neon Dwarf Gourami
I bought a feeding ring to see how much I feed. I reduced the flow rate from the pump. The fish even cover more of the tank now. How dumb swirling water sucking fish and food! Thanks!
I will now think about what else was written and get back to you on the progress. I have a month before the repair surgery so this gives me time to get things right!
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8619
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 05:27 pm:       

feeding ring? my gosh, what are they going to think of next--lol. anyway to sell you something.
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Crystalview
Junior Member
Username: crystalview

Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 06:46 pm:       

It was only .99 It lets me see they flakes and I need all the help I can get till I stop overfeeding. I thought it was stupid too. The flakes do stay in the ring a long time.
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8622
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 07:47 pm:       

lol. i learn stuff everyday. the feeding ring is something i have never noticed on the shelves--but, i don't look at the shelves all that much. I am afraid that one of those clever advertising guys will create some neat packaging for a totally useless product and suck me in. next thing i know i will be standing at the cash register shelling out hard earned dollars for something i never use.
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Crystalview
Junior Member
Username: crystalview

Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 08:16 pm:       

When I get to your level I will laugh at me too :-) I usually don't do the looky lu thing thru a store either. One for the same reason stated and I am sucker. But I live an hour from most stores so that stops the shopping urge. Besides it would be to easy overstock or have to start new tanks. There are so many fish and other aqua. pets.
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8625
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Sunday, April 09, 2006 - 09:08 pm:       

i'm not sure i'm at a level to aspire to. benign neglect is not much of a claim to success.

listen to that dan guy--just read lots of what he posts. hang out for a few years and you begin to get a glimmer of an idea of what to do (russ and cindy ain't bad either--or a whole bunch of other people here).

now we just need to get your husband up to speed too. when you go into the body shop to get whatever's wrong under the hood fixed he needs to hold the fort.
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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dan
Moderator
Username: dan

Post Number: 6817
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 07:47 am:       

feeding ring? my gosh, what are they going to think of next yer just mad cuz you didn't think of the idea first.
you're never too old to have a happy childhood.
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8627
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 09:31 am:       

ranks right up there with a new toothbrush i saw advertised a week or so ago. brush your teeth--then your tongue. probably true. what people buy--lol.
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Crystalview
Junior Member
Username: crystalview

Post Number: 19
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, April 10, 2006 - 03:17 pm:       

Ok Can I do a what if? 1 Dwarf Gourami and the
1 Neon Dwarf Gourami chase each other a lot especially away from the food. The Parrot lunges towards them when they are in his cave or eating where he wants to. Could they hurt one another? or since the parrot is new he is just saying who he is. So what if I leave everybody in together should it work out? Nobody else shows any sign of stress or caring about these 3 fish.
I am glad I entertained the two of you:-) and I will not go out and buy the toothbrush....
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