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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 946
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 03:40 pm:       

The first step has been taken. I picked up the porcelain tiles for the laundry room. I've been holding off on this project until I could get this room tiled.

Most of this tank will be in the laundry room, the rest will be in the family room.

The tank is going to be 130 gallon oceanic reef ready. 60 L x 18 deep x 29 high.

I'm going to light it with 2 x 250 MH's and maybe some pc's and moonlights.

There will be an automatic water change system plumbed to the sink in the laundry room. I'm not entirely clear on how this will be done yet but I'm counting on the help of some of the members of the local reef club.

I'm going to use a large classic eheim for filtration and will run the intake and out-take under the substrate.

Co2 is going in-line with the water change system.

There will be access panels from the front to clean the front glass.

Basically, I'm going to copy most of what has worked from the tank I saw last weekend.

Any suggestions?
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russ
Ancient Member
Username: rasaqua

Post Number: 3483
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 06:04 pm:       

Erin,

I'm having a dumb attack! I started and restarted this post three times, with multiple scenarios, then realized that I forgot if it was going to be a fresh water tank set up or a marine tank? Thus, I have to reserve any suggestions until I know for sure.
"For every difficult question, there is an answer that is clear and simple and wrong."
(George Bernard Shaw)
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 947
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 06:10 pm:       

Russ,

I'm setting this up for a freshwater planted tank. It may someday become a reef tank when/if I get to a point where I feel I can afford the reef and still keep a planted tank.

This is going to be a closed system. No sump.

I'm going to run the MH lighting 6 hours a day.

I'm hoping to start the wall demolition a few weeks after the holidays.
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Sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 7854
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 10:42 am:       

are you including a refugarium?

Think overflow, float valves, barrels, and RO unit to get the auto water change system.

so, with the tank taking up part of the laundry room how are you going to do the wash? Or, is that why they have dry cleaners?
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Shawn
Regular Member
Username: oregonamateur

Post Number: 141
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 12:24 pm:       

Probally has a big laundry room.
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 949
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 06:04 pm:       

Not that big. . 80 Sq. feet. My husband's been grumbling under his breath for months now. The room is big enough to house the backside of this tank, a sink, washer and dryer and the water heater. It's going to be tight.

No refugium unless it becomes a reef tank someday. Then I will disconnect the eheim and set up a sump.

I've read about automated water change systems that have been set up with just a regular house filter and an automatic and/or an automatic liquid dosing system to dose Prime. I have an RO unit but that would mean a holding tank of some sort.
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Doug
Regular Member
Username: dreamer

Post Number: 210
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 06:22 pm:       

Erin I envy you, this sounds like a beautiful display. One thought though. Water Heaters, washers and dryers go bad... will there be room to remove them when they do? Just a thought.
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 950
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 11, 2005 - 07:34 pm:       

That's a good thought Doug. One that never crossed my mind and made me run to measure. There will be a clear path to the door and room to spare. Just in case, I'll make sure the contractor looks at it.
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 942
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:10 pm:       

Ok, I just had a response typed up and then went back and re-read everything and saw that you have (or will have) a reef ready oceanic.
This is a good thing, because for automatic water changing systems, you generally need an overflow of some sort to let the excess water drain out of the aquarium (I think just about every freshwater automatic water changer I've ever seen is basically just a saddle valve with an overflow that goes right to a drain so the excess water simply drains away). The amount of water they add to the aquarium is usually such a small amount that I question whether you'd really need to dose any type of water conditioner as it's filling. Of course, if you want a lot of water flowing through, that's another story, but in a planted aquarium, if you're using fertilizer, you don't usually want to be changing a ton of water because you'll just end up wasting a lot of fertilizer (or CO2).

I guess right now the biggest question I have is what will you be doing with the holes in the aquarium since you'll have no sump? Like I mentioned, you'll probably want to use one of the holes for an overflow for the automatic water change system. The larger tanks usually have two overflows, so this still leaves three holes in the bottom of the tank that you'll need to cap off. Installing the bulkheads and capping them off isn't really a big deal, but keep in mind you'll have one or two chambers of water (depending on how many overflows) just sitting there being basically stagnant...which is usually not a good thing.

Were you planning on hooking your Eheim up to one of the overflows? Will this be a brand new tank or an older used one? I know the overflow set-ups changed just recently, so if its older I think the set-up you're describing would make more sense to me.

Unless I'm totally reading this incorrectly or am having a big brain fart, I guess my biggest question is, what do you plan to do with the overflows, and why even spend the extra money on them if you aren't really going to be using them? If you only need one hole for an overflow, you should be able to get the tank drilled for no more than $50, and this way you aren't wasting valuable holes (not to mention the money you'll save on plumbing...although I think Oceanic tanks already come with all the plumbing).

I'm not trying to be overcritical, I'm just having trouble visualizing everything (and I'm a visual person)...and of course, I want to make sure you won't have any unforeseen issues with setting up the aquarium.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 964
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 07:51 am:       

I appreciate the critical review. Actually, I will be using all four holes from the overflow and drilling more. One hole will be the standpipe for the drain. The eheim return may be split into two and plumbed to two holes (I made a mistake when I said the filter would be plumbed under the substrate. It's closed loop returns that run under the substrate). A closed loop intake will tank up another hole and we will probably drill another hole for the return of the closed loop and the eheim intake (if we can figure out a way to avoid the potential for the eheim to suck air we may use the overflow box for this).

G, I've never done this, or anything like it, before. I'm getting a lot of help from other people to work out the schematics.

A lot of the design is based on the tank I posted pictures of in the picture section. The tank has been up and running for a year without any major problems so I'm hoping its a good design to start from. We are taking it a bit further to avoid visible equipment. I'm fortunate that I have a friend with a Dremel (Sp) and good plumbing/tank knowledge.
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 949
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 12:42 am:       

Well that makes more sense now...sounds like a plan to me.

You should have fun setting it up...I would at least. If nothing else it'll be a nice learning experience...and then you'll probably find yourself wanting to set-up more and more tanks.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 966
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 06:57 pm:       

I'm already enjoying the process. My husband on the other hand is flat out annoyed.
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russ
Ancient Member
Username: rasaqua

Post Number: 3504
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Tuesday, December 20, 2005 - 12:28 pm:       

Erin,

Sounds like a real nice project. As G indicated, if you have a newer Oceanic reef ready w/mega flow, and have the over flow along the back glass, this would give you two drain holes and two return holes. I see your dilemma. Doesn't seem like a issue for the drainage. But, since your canister will be pulling it's water instead of relying on a passive flow siphon, there will be a possibility of it sucking air if the water in the over flow portion does not continually cover the drain.

This rules out the stand the pipe for use as a drain, since stand pipe drains must incorporate air in order to work. (of coarse this type drainage is already ruled moot by the fact it is behind the over flow partition). All you need in this case is a simple, open hole (possibly with some type of screen over it).

Another issue I see is that two of the original holes are 'return' holes. In a reef ready system, this usually involves the use of a rigid portion of tubing that extends to the top of the over flow, with corrugated or flex tubing that is bendable and used to adjust the direction of the return water flow in the tank. Having return tubes directed up and over the over flow partition, then down underneath the substrate is not very appealing to look at, but if they are positioned strategically in the corners and the inside portion made of clear pvc, then there would be no need for additional drilling.

So, this leads me to another question. I'm picturing this substrate return system as a loop. A filtration loop, as you know, involves a continuous flow of water from the drain, into the filtration system, then pumped back through a return, thus connecting the cycle and forming the water loop. Here is my main questions: Are you planning on having the ends of the return tubes drain back into the canister? If so, why? Is your 130 gal the newer version with the over flows along the back, or the older version with the overflows in the corners? {
"For every difficult question, there is an answer that is clear and simple and wrong."
(George Bernard Shaw)
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 967
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2005 - 08:49 pm:       

Russ, I have not purchased the tank yet but I imagine it will be the newer version with the overflows along the back.

As to your question "[a]re you planning on having the ends of the return tubes drain back into the canister? If so, why?"

No. The closed loop is not connected to the eheim filtration. It is a seperate circulation mechanism utilizing its own pump.
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 974
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 08:19 pm:       

Yahoo! Ordered my new eheim last night. Also picked up some other goodies. A new pin point pH controller and two liquidosers. I'm going to use one for nutrients and the other I'm going to try to use to dose prime in sequence with the water changes.
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 954
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 09:40 pm:       

Are you getting one of those big 5-gallon bucket size Eheims? Those are great...if you've never had one you'll love it. Just be sure to use filter media that's easy to clean...and with any loose media, it might not be a bad idea to try to find a larger filter media bag to put the stuff in so you don't have to worry about dumping it out when you clean it.

Do you know what kind of water changing system you're using? Is it something that just provides a continuous drip, or is it something more complicated (such as some sort of system with float valves or something of the sort)? If some local reef aquarists are helping out, I'd imagine it might be a "serious" water changing system, but for freshwater, a continuous drip type system works really well too. I'm just curious is all.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 975
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 09:57 pm:       

I ordered the 2128 pro thermo eheim. I have one of that series on my 55 now and really like it. One less piece of equipment in the tank to look at. It doesn't have a high turn over rate (280 gph) but with the closed loop I think I'll be allright.

It's going to be a serious wc system. It will be on a timer to open the drain every so many hours and add new water. It will also have a float valve to make up for evaporation. At least that's how i see it. I need to sit down with Jim and diagram the system out.
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russ
Ancient Member
Username: rasaqua

Post Number: 3531
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 12:14 am:       

I'm holding out for one of those new Fluval FX5 canister filters.
"For every difficult question, there is an answer that is clear and simple and wrong."
(George Bernard Shaw)
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 955
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 01:34 am:       

Seriously, new fluvals? I haven't heard about that yet, I'll have to go check it out...although I guess I did hear about the upcoming "upgrades" to the existing models and the fx does sound familiar, so maybe it's nothing that new.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 956
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 01:48 am:       

Ok...did a quick search...looks like a nice filter. Now all they need to do is get them to us over here in the U.S.

I do remember our Hagen rep telling me about the current 04 series getting somewhat of an overhaul (more or less a cosmetic overhaul it sounds, making it more "flashy"). Not sure when that is or was supposed to happen, but he was telling me about it a while ago. I think they were going to change the name around a little as well.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 991
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 09:47 pm:       

Yahoo! Equipment is starting to arrive.

http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/gallery_main.html/photo-gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&c at=10003&pos=2

Here's where the tank will go before demolition.

http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/gallery_main.html/photo-gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&c at=10003&pos=0

Here's where the backside of the tank will be located.

http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/gallery_main.html/photo-gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&c at=10003&pos=1

(ignore the cat litter :-))

I'm running into some problems with contractors. The first one basically wasn't interested. The second one is under the impression that he can't construct a stand that would leave me any space for equipment underneath b/c he needs to support the weight with lots of 2x4's.

So...I located a reputable custom aquarium installation company and got a quote. At least these guys know what they're doing and what I want. Turns out that the cost of a custom tank isn't that far off the cost of the oceanic 130 that I was considering. Starfire glass and an extra 2 inches of depth are in the works. :-) :-) :-)
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 958
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 11:24 pm:       

From the sound of it, that second guy you speak of would probably build you something that you could park a couple of cars on (some people tend to seriously over-engineer things, which isn't necessarily bad, but when you're paying for it it's not generally the best thing). When most people look at any basic (factory made) aquarium stand, they're always surprised at how little material is actually used to support the hundreds if not thousands of pounds of weight...

Nice lookin' equipment by the way...
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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russ
Ancient Member
Username: rasaqua

Post Number: 3541
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 12:36 pm:       

Erin,

Looks like things are moving now. Won't be long. I agree with G on the over-engineering stuff. The link you previously provided on tank stands contained 4x4 upright and cross struts. You can set a house on that!

35 feet of standard 2x4 (not spruce) can easily support a 130 gal aquarium with bottom bracing and additional front/back center support. Good quality lag screws also come in handy for fastening it all together.

I guess those two contractors just didn't realize that the corners are supporting the actual weight of the tank. They do or should know that upright 2x4s can easily support 1500-2000 pounds (load force). The rest is all gravy coating and pocketbook liner. With the front and rear center upright bracing (just a single 2x4 is needed for this. One front and one back) there will be very minimal shear force along the 2x4 that runs the length of the tank
"For every difficult question, there is an answer that is clear and simple and wrong."
(George Bernard Shaw)
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 993
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 08:36 am:       

Your both right about the over engineering. Bill (the second contractor) did a great job on our deck. It was also over engineered but I did not mind in the least. With the stand, however, it's critical that I be able to use the room underneath.

The quote on the stand from the custom aquarium guys is 100.00 cheaper if the stand is steel rather than 2x4.

I'm ordering the lighting today. :-)
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Shauna Gayheart
Junior Member
Username: sli

Post Number: 30
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, December 30, 2005 - 11:25 pm:       

Just a quick question for you, how will running the washer or dryer affect the tank? I know in our laundry room the temp goes up quite a bit when the dryer is going, but our dryer is like 15-20 years old. Anyway, your plans sure sound exciting!
Ok...so I'm a LOTR fan...
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 997
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 09:17 pm:       

Shauna,

It's a good question. The answer is that I'm really not sure. I'll let you know. Hopefully, the fish won't get cooked. :-)
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Kim
Advanced Member
Username: kimrin

Post Number: 2089
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 11:15 am:       

it's going to look spectacular Erin! I can already envision it in place of that wall.
Hubby will be impressed when he's done having to deal with it I'm sure. :-)
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 961
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 04:13 pm:       

I think with that much water, the worst that would happen with all the heat is it would give the heaters a break for a few minutes.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 1000
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 09:39 pm:       

Thanks Kim. Mark (hubby) is convinced that all things fish detract from family life. He's right to some extent.

I hope your right G.
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April
Regular Member
Username: jumpingtadpoles

Post Number: 945
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 11:08 pm:       

I agree with G. This does not apply if you are "on top of things" like my mother...
If you are more like me, doing a couple loads every day,you shouldn't have any problems with it. The only difference I can see is cutting down on the heater's job a little. You might need to hang your laundry out in the summer if you don't already though...
Dream big, celebrate life, and never stop learning.
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Shauna Gayheart
Junior Member
Username: sli

Post Number: 35
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 10:29 am:       

Thanks, Erin! My fingers are crossed for you!
Ok...so I'm a LOTR fan...
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 1002
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 08:54 pm:       

I checked out the shop where my tank and stand are going to be made today. It was pretty cool seeing all the different custom tanks in different stages of construction. I can't wait until mine is on the production line. It will be 6-8 weeks from start to finish.

Chris showed me a piece of star fire glass. The difference is amazing. For those unfamiliar with starfire, the glass is made without lead so it doesn't have agreenish tint. It is much clearer than the glass normally used.

When all was said and done, the tank was much more expensive than I originally intended. It's easy to get carried away when it's being custom made.

I should have a 3D diagram by Monday.
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 1004
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 09:54 pm:       

I thought this was pretty cool although I'm not sure whether anyone will be able to view it(or whether it was allright to load it onto the photo gallery site).

http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/gallery_main.html/photo-gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&c at=0&pos=0
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Gopi
Advanced Member
Username: gopi

Post Number: 1534
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 10:11 pm:       

I had to download it (just by clicking on the image that showed up)

It looks neat Erin! I've been following along...just in case ;)
There! You have a bigger tank! Will you stop plotting my death now??
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 962
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 11:18 pm:       

Looks pretty sweet....

It might be a little more than you planned on spending, but it'll be worth it to get exactly what you want...especially with all that plumbing you are planning on doing.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 1006
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 06:21 pm:       

Thanks guys.

What do you think of the intake holes? I split the intake for the closed loop into two holes to add some redundancy in case of clogging on the screens. I'm not sure whether this is a good idea or not. The guy making the tank thinks I would be better off with one larger intake hole rather than two smaller ones. The larger hole will have a slower flow.
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 963
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 09:12 pm:       

If the intake for the closed loop are the holes in the overflow box, it probably won't make a huge difference either way as the water can only drain as fast as water re-enters the overflow. If you add nothing to stop it from doing so, you may hear some "slurping," but there are various means of eliminating most if not all of the noise. It's not a bad idea to have a "back-up" plan (two intake holes instead of one), but if we are indeed talking about the holes in the overflow, keep in mind that since the overflow is one large box instead of two separate smaller ones, anything that gets in and clogs up one intake can just as easily clog the second...

Hopefully I remembered everything you're doing...if I got some of the intake/outake holes mixed up, this entire post will be totally pointless...but maybe it'll give you a good laugh or something.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 1007
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 09:41 am:       

lol. The overflow box is only going to be used for water changing. The intakes will be two of the smaller holes below the overflow.
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 967
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 09:52 pm:       

Yeah...isn't that what I said?

But anyway, I still don't think it'll make a huge deal, plus two intakes will allow for better circulation throughout the tank, which might come in handy once it starts getting full of plants.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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Erin
Advanced Member
Username: emc2

Post Number: 1025
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 09:28 pm:       

Some of the hardscaping materials came in last week.

http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/gallery_main.html/photo-gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&c at=0&pos=2

And some serious lighting...

http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/species-gallery/gallery_main.html/photo-gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&c at=0&pos=4
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G
Regular Member
Username: just_g

Post Number: 971
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 08:14 pm:       

Hmmm...I'm seeing a couple of turtles and some neons and danios and corys...


Nevermind, I founded em.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - N.Schwartzkopf
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