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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 61
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 02:39 pm:       

Just curious if anyone has tried this product and what the results were like or dislike etc etc

Purpose and Benefits

Nitra-Zorb is a water filtration medium comprised of natural and synthetic ion-exchange resins in a flow-through pouch. Nitra-Zorb selectively removes ammonia, nitrite and nitrate from freshwater aquariums. This product helps establish new aquariums by controlling the levels of ammonia and nitrite and preventing fish loss. Nitra-Zorb is also very useful in established aquariums whenever ammonia and nitrite is detected. Many advanced hobbyists are concerned about nitrate in the aquarium. Nitra-Zorb will help keep nitrate under control. Nitra-Zorb is easily recharged in a solution of warm table salt. Nitra-Zorb can be used in any filter.

When setting up a new aquarium use Nitra-Zorb continuously as directed. Whenever ammonia or nitrite is indicated by testing, Nitra-Zorb is exhausted and must be recharged. Follow the recharging instructions and continue to use Nitra-Zorb while the biological filter becomes established.

Nitra-Zorb is ideal for delicate species of fish and plants that thrive in soft water aquariums. This product will not alter pH, hardness, or alkalinity levels, and will not remove trace elements such as iron. Use Nitra-Zorb to maintain high water quality and fish vigor in any freshwater aquarium.

The level of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate removed depends on the size of the Nitra-Zorb pouch, size of the aquarium, flow rate of the aquarium filter, and how much ammonia, nitrite and nitrate is being produced in the aquarium daily. A 3.7 oz (105 g) pouch of Nitra-Zorb in a 20 U.S. gallon (75.6 L) aquarium will remove 5.0 ppm ammonia, 1.0 ppm nitrite, and 20 ppm nitrate in 24-48 hours. If the aquarium is overstocked or fed heavily, the build-up of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate may occur as fast it can be removed by Nitra-Zorb. Nitrate levels may be so high that they are well above the maximum level on nitrate test kits. It may be necessary to continually recharge and reuse the Nitra-Zorb pouch until the nitrate level drops within the test kit range.


Directions for Use:

Rinse the pouch thoroughly in tap water before use. After 24-48 hours recharge the pouch and repeat the process. Place the pouch in the aquarium filter so water passes through the pouch. Over time the resins will become coated with dissolved organic matter. When product performance declines replace with a new pouch.

Recharging Instructions:
Dissolve 4 tablespoons (80 g) of non-iodized salt in 8 fl oz (240 ml) of warm water. Do not use boiling water. Soak the pouch in the saltwater solution for two hours and rinse in tap water. The pouch is now ready to re-use.


Compatibility:

Nitra-Zorb can be used in freshwater aquariums containing aquarium salt and in Rift lake cichlid aquariums. Nitra-Zorb will not work in saltwater aquariums. The high level of salt prevents the ion-exchange process from working properly. Do not use Nitra-Zorb while medicating the aquarium.
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9465
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 03:41 pm:       

I've heard it mentioned once or twice here, but I just do water changes.

Even if the product takes every bit of all three nitrogenous wastes out of the tank, it won't remove the DOC's and other products. You will still need to do water changes to remove them, so why use it?

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 03:45 pm:       

Ive never used but it mentioned to me by another user would be an interesting product for helping cycle a system while possibly keep fish still safe hence removing the ammonias etc while the tank would still be creating a cycle
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9467
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 03:53 pm:       

It would not enhance cycling, it would grind to a halt. No ammonia, no nitrosomona. No nitrites, no nitrobacter.

If it works and you recharge it every 2 days, you will never cycle. But the work of the several hour soak every two days sounds like too much trouble to do almost 200 times a year, for each tank, and I imagine at some point in time the aquarist will forget and the fish will still sit in nitrigenous wastes.

If I didn't preseed all my filters, and my fish had to deal with ammonia, etc., I would prefer to get it all over with once and never have my fish have to deal with it again.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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TruCelt
Advanced Member
Username: trucelt

Post Number: 1698
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 04:24 pm:       

I used it at my old house, when the water suddenly started coming out with NitrAtes of 60ppm (or somesuch) straight from the tap. It helped immensely in that situation.

I would not recommend it for a long-term solution, but it saved their little "caudal fins" at the time. . .

It might also be good to have on hand during cycling, just to keep water parameters within reason during the process. You might put it in for an hour or so at a time if measurements get into the extreme danger range. (I'm guessing here that you have already put fish in the tank and are looking to keep them alive through the process.)

But Cindy is right, for the long term, letting it cycle is by far less painful . . .

Fr. Ted: You know the phrase 'to take care of something'? Well, I realise now that you meant that in a sort of Al Pacino way. . . Whereas I was thinking more along the lines of Julie Andrews. . .

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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 63
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 04:39 pm:       

Nope my tanks are cycled but i'm getting ready to setup a Q tank was thinking of looking into and trying out possibly for that
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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 64
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 08, 2006 - 05:08 pm:       

Well ive sent a email to Aquarium Pharmaceuticals asking whether this product stops the natural process of helpful bacteria from growing hence you would need to use this product all the time like cindy has suggested since your tank would never cycle properly or whether after a certain amount of time when you remove this product the natural process of cycling has taken place.
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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 67
Registered: 02-2006


Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 02:36 pm:       

Well heres a mini update after sending an E-mail off to the company about this product i finally called and asked about this product and we went over it several times this product does not inhibit the process of bacteria forming as in i said i could use this product for a month and the cycling process would continue to occur and he said YES.I said after a month say i could remove the nutra-zorb back and the tank cold very well be cycled at this point and he assured me YES.the cycling process still occurs and this product only helps it along ,ive included the number if anyone wants to call who might have better questions then i had .

HOURS OF OPERATION:
8:00 AM - 5:00 PM Eastern Time (Monday through Friday)

Product/Technical Support: (800) 847-0659

Mailing Address:
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Inc.
PO Box 218
Chalfont, PA 18914-0218
Main Office: (215) 822-8181
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9563
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 03:38 pm:       

Unless you can explain how removing ammonia, nitrites and nitrates from an aquarium - assuming it can actually do all that - can "help it along", I'm not buying it. Either it removes them, and stops the cycle, or it doesn't, and neither helps nor hurts the cycle, but is basically a waste of your money.

If it works, I can see it as helpful when your tap water contains nitrates, like Tru's and Craig's have on occasion, and some of our UK members do all the time, since under those circumstances, additional water changes won't reduce the nitrates. But I can't think of any reason to use it under any other conditions. Water changes will reduce all three, as well as DOC's and all other nasties not targeted by NitraZorb, and replace depleted trace elements and minerals, all with one 15 minute water change a week...instead of a 4 hour recharge every other day.

Just my

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 68
Registered: 02-2006


Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 04:31 pm:       

Cindy I posted that number as i was hoping someone like yourself being more exp in the fish side of things would call,the fellow on the phone told me it does not remove all the above on greatly reduces please call the number its toll free i'd be more interested in your feedback on this issue if you took the time to call the number and directly ask them these questions.They answered the call on the first couple rings
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Joe
Regular Member
Username: joesaysso

Post Number: 291
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 06:45 pm:       

I believe that a significant portion of the chemicals available are aimed squarely at the un-educated or lazy consumers. These are the people who don't know that they should do water changes or think that if they dump enough chemicals into thier tanks, they won't need to do water changes.

Except in the case that Tru and Cindy mentioned, this product has no logical use from what I can see. To all of the newbies out there, I say forget about the Nitra-zorbs, Bio-spiras, Stress Coats, and the whatever else's of the world. Don't waste your money. Don't short change yourself or your fish. Cycle your tank the right way and do the water changes. You and your fish will be thankful.
Joe
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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 69
Registered: 02-2006


Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 07:23 pm:       

OMG i cannot believe that some people who actually are educated about fish refuse to even consider or actually take the time to call and ask these people lol i am in no way promoting this product as i havent purchased it but i really find it hard to believe a couple of the responses to it.Yes people have a reason to be skeptical about all the product on the market but to simply dismiss something without even doing research on it? I mean maybe we should go back to letting our water stand rather then add chemicals into the water to purify it lol.

Well i guess even when new product come onto the Market(Not sure how new but new to me) people should always stay old school and refuse to even think that something might actually work as advertised.I know at some point i will purchase the product and give it a try just because i do enjoy trying new things and seeing if they actually do work as claimed although it wont be today might be a week or a month but thats life in the fast lane i guess.
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8357
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 07:57 pm:       

Plazma,
I gotta ask, why should we call the people? you have an interest. we don't. At least I don't. No need to talk to somebody peddling a product to get an answer if they think what they sell is good. When i am in a mood to get frustrated maybe i will call Phillip Morris and talk about how come they sell smokes. Now there is a product that must be good for people. God knows enough of them are sold worldwide.

I am going to default to a couple of very old themes I try to convey on the board. The reason i default to them is because they has proven themselves to work over the decades--regardless of species (unless we talk marine species).

First, freshwater fish love freshwater. the process of providing that for the fish exports nitrates. the most effective way to remove nitrates is to do just that--remove them from the tank with water changes. The second method, that is easy and cost effective, is to avoid overstocking and overfeeding. The fewer the fish the healthier the environment. Fish fed the appropriate amount helps to avoid excess waste and decaying food in the substrate.

Now, stop and think about "ion" exchange. they are swapping something to change the shape of the nitrate molecule. that something is swapped from the sodium chloride at a ratio that is not 1:1. the swap will occur, nitrates will come down and Total Dissolved Solids will go up. Many, many species of the fish we keep do not like dissolved solids--especially basic "salt".

Third, let's think economics. The "pet" market has expanded into a billion dollar plus market--fish are a good chunk of it. People put product out there not because they are by default good for the fish--rather they are there so the company selling them makes a buck. They sell you "how you lead an easier or better life". They sell you quick gimmicks and shortcuts that address one issue that they have decided to elevate to a problem to separate you from your money.

All you need to do is "CHANGE THE DANG WATER". do big volumes, every week and your fish will grow and be healthy. use the gimmicks, shortcuts, and all the bs products on the market today and most of what you do is turn this into an expensive, wallet draining hobby for no reason.

The other thing is "DO NOT OVERSTOCK". the third thing "DO NOT OVERFEED". It is an incredibly easy hobby. Frshwater fish love freshwater. they thrive in it. they need it. it is incredibly cheap.

3 things to master in the hobby. after that it is a piece of cake.
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 71
Registered: 02-2006


Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 08:54 pm:       

Well sully and no disrespect intended at all but this is a fish board for us to come and learn and talk and chat about fish and other things care feeding etc etc and i dont think learning is a bad thing it was something i was interested in and i know a few other people had mentioned this to me as well about does it really work and once again i will simply point out that i thought some members of this board like yourself or other who are very much more exp on the topics of fish might have a better insight into asking the proper questions about a product rather then just dismissing something.

Now not commenting on this particular product but any product just because its new doesnt mean it doesnt work or its simply a scam to get our money and i fail to see what this has to do with philip morris considering this is a fish board and its related to a fish product.

Thanks for all the great insight into asking about new products guys since i thought a opinion from a exp board member who might have taken the time to call a free # and ask some pertinent questions and maybe enlighten.

Anyways delete this whole thread as its a complete waste of time apparently.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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Michael Bryant
Advanced Member
Username: michaelb

Post Number: 2178
Registered: 07-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:18 pm:       

Here, here!! Sully has nailed it! Keep it simple, change the water, don't overstock and don't overfeed. As he so eloquently said, "after that it is a piece of cake."
Now, if you would rather attempt to beat the system, a proven one I would say, go ahead and try Nitra-Zorb! The label clearly states "removes Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate from freshwater aquariums" and the insert states that it contains NO PHOSPHATE, will not affect PH, and is safe for all freshwater fish, plants, and invertebrates. Sounds great right? Further investigation will reveal that Nitra-Zorb apparently removes SOME, NOT ALL of the Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. One 7.4oz pouch(standard size I believe) in 55 US gallons will remove 4ppm Ammonia, 0.7ppm Nitrite and 16ppm nitrate in 24-48hrs. Hmmmmm....wonder what a 50% water change will remove? The best part of the insert is the part where they tell you to continue using Nitra-Zorb if you detect any Ammonia or Nitrite. THEN they say to look for possible causes, such as over feeding, inadequate biological filtration, or unnoticed fish deaths!! Now really, shouldn't you have checked for those things BEFORE you spent that hard earned cash???
Obviously I have used this product...long story, tank of death a couple of years ago coupled with huge amounts of nitrate in the tap water. Did it work? Maybe. Tap water cleared up in two weeks so who knows. It still sits in it's container under the 55gal, actually forgot I even had it. Would I use it again? Doubtfull, I have lots of bottled water to use in the event the tap water goes crazy again.
How do we learn? We try things...we screw up and strive never to make the same mistake twice! There are lots of gimmicks and tricks to be found in this hobby. Some work, most don't. Fish are in water 24/7, that is their environment, they NEED fresh clean water like we need fresh clean air. Advice can be found everywhere these days, yet some advice stands out amongst the rest. Sully gave you the three best tips you could ever get! FRESHWATER FISH LOVE FRESHWATER, DO NOT OVERSTOCK, DO NOT OVERFEED!!
Time for some cake!
Many seek advice, only the wise profit from it.
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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8358
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:13 pm:       

plazma, the point is just because it is on the market does not mean it is worth taking time to talk to a sales or customer service rep. the point is that if you pay attention to the basics you don't need 90% of the crap they peddle at the fish store. A nitrazorb being one of them.

I am a pretty simple minded guy. I often admit that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I readily admit my ignorance, repeatedly.

My take on the board is that i will contribute what I am capable of contributing. you would be surprised at the hours of research, reading, and talking with "fish experts" that have gone into the formulation of even my simplest response. And a lot of years of keeping a lot of different fish. At other times when I come across something I find interesting about fish--no matter how esoteric--you would be shocked at the weeks of research that go into my being able to answer a question with some certainty of honesty, integrity and knowledge, the next time it comes around. Because all the questions here keep coming around and around.

I will take the time to look into those areas that I find interesting. And helpful to beginner, intermediate and advanced hobbyist. I do it of my own volition. You might be surprised to know i understand--without calling AP folks--how nitrazorb works. just might have checked it out some time ago. i try to understand what is on the market so i can respond to the questions here. There is absolutely nothing interesting or new with the chemistry behind nitra zorb.

I will once again say something. Change water, stock properly, feed appropriately, and provide the appropriate decor and 99.9% of the other "stuff" swirling about the fishkeeping hobby vanishes. Diseases magically vanish, water conditions are typically under control, and most importantly the fish are healthy. Plus you find more money in your wallet.

I am not all that old school. you would be amazed at what i have examined. I'm getting an ultra violet filter to hook into my plumbing for a planted tank. I've used RO water--but only as required for the fish to breed. I even have a box of salt under one of my tanks (although i think that mitigates the argument that i am not old school--maybe it helps that i have not dipped into for a few years). I am of the school that says keep it simple. keep it easily managed. We are dealing with a life form. treat it well--not experimentally. Or, in a manner most convenient to a hobbyist. And, most importantly have fun and relax. If fishkeeping does not bring joy into your being then why keep fish? And, I try to help people from doing things they don't need to. I try to help people spend money on more tanks and fish by learning a very simplistic approach to fishkeeping. No sense in spending money on what falls into my "snake oil" category. if that means being practical is old school--call the nuns and have them rap my knuckles with a ruler....Heck, i even own a microscope now--had to go down the path so i could figure out the Microgeophagus ramirezi issues i was having. And the pH probe and controller, regulator get-up has to pass the hi-tech, "new fangled" test.

If you want to spend your money go for it. if you want to ask a question don't expect all to jump in and support or agree with your line of thinking. Or, even think it is worth the time to get the questions answered for you. You calling and talking will do more to open up other areas that you would want to think about than any phone call dan, cindy, mikeb, mikem, jp, amy, russ, jess, gopi, true celt, brad, aquatot, sully or any of the others might make ever will....

It is a board. we all contribute in our own way. With many of us having a record of trying to do nothing more (or less) than help beginners through the learning curve--even when the learning curve contains the forays into the use of things like nitra zorb. and not so subtle jabs at our personalities or practices.

For me the board is a place for quick discussion and quick q and a's (for the most part). i will spend my time writing books and having long threads when I think the topic merits the effort. people here will testify to my ability to bore everyone to death with long, rambling, yet informative posts (wish i had the background required to be as succinct and as eloquent as a russ, dan, or cindy).


The point about the smokes is that they sell the things. Just like they sell nitra zorb. (it is communication technique--the reference is "the familiar to the unfamiliar". JFK was very successful in speeches -- especially those written by salinger--with it, and a few variants of the communication technique).

If you have high nirates in the water supply it might be worth looking at to help. as are many other products. As there are many other products useful for many other very specific issues. Don't expect, however, a lot of the "experienced" fish keepers to trip over themselves to get to a phone to do calls for you. We wil try to provide the benefit of out experience without the need for text books.

go test it--you will find that it reduces nitrates--i hope given the fish you keep it does not need to do the job on ammonia and nitrite. or that it is used in lieu of significant, frequent water changes.

Now, you know it works as advertised--why bother buying it. changing water in nearly all of our cases does the same thing.

and finally. just because i agree or diagree with you does not mean i make it personal, and i make an attempt to assure my posts are not misconstrued as personal affronts or challenges. just because you think something is important and i don't does not mean i think any more or less of you. but, the way some of the comments are written in at least one of the posts above makes it tough for me to stay in my sully skin.
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Joe
Regular Member
Username: joesaysso

Post Number: 292
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:01 am:       

Look, Plazma. Forget everything that has been said to this point. You are right. It is a fish board and I guarantee that everybody here would love to learn something new.

The problem is that you presented this topic with little to no knowledge about the product. You had a few curiosities about it and instead of doing your own research, you posted the topic and the phone number here hoping somebody with some "experience" might do the leg work for you and report the findings on the board.

When nobody bit on this outstanding "learning opportunity" that you have provided you responded with this:

"OMG i cannot believe that some people who actually are educated about fish refuse to even consider or actually take the time to call and ask these people "

Ask them what exactly?? I honestly don't know what you want from anybody here. Nobody cares about how a product works if they have no use for it. Just because some people here have an extensive background in fishkeeping does not mean that they have a want or a need to know what is in every chemical on the store shelf and how it works.

I don't care how hair spray works, I'm bald as a cue ball. If I have no hair, I'm not going to call up the corporate offices at Hair Spray Inc to find out how their product works. If you have hair and are interested in using some hair spray, YOU call up Hair Spray Inc and find out how it works. And if you find out anything interesting, let us know.
Joe
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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 72
Registered: 02-2006


Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 01:52 am:       

Well Joe and sully and to any of those that took the time to respond to this simple post it was basicilly in the hopes of speaking or getting input from those that have used or tried this product like any product to receive input on it.
Input being those that actually had some dealins with this product in one way or another not input of people who have never used and or did not bother to research it in any form before dismissing it.
Ive never used it and before purchasing or using i asked for input on the product which through this post i have recived input from people who have actually used or tried it at some time or another
Trucelt, Michael Bryant and sully i do appreaciate your input thanks you for responding as having experience with this product.

Joe the reason i presented this here was to do research with people who had used this product i posted the info for those that might be interested in the product and asking simalar questions your input in this matter other then trying to be insulting which i feel your last post particulary was is unneeded if you had no interest in this your first post was quite suffecient of your feelings on this subject.

Once again i'd like to thanks those who made an effort with some input on this subject as ive only begun to get back into tanks after a 10 year absence so excuse my ignorance when asking about products when i was doing tanks things were a little different no cycle no biospira etc etc many many new things in the markets filters everything i joined this board to ask about things and learn.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9575
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 07:21 am:       

LOL! Why not just be honest and say, "Thank you to everybody except joe and cindy"? For the record, did you notice that they did not endorse the product any more than I did?
I have read posts about NitraZorb and PhosZorb and others in my years here, but if you want to limit your replies to only those few that already posted the info in those threads, and not the many that read them and can recount it for you then so be it. I'll skip your threads for now on. There are 11 other threads with info and opinions about NitraZorb already posted, why not do the search and read them, instead of asking those people to repeat their info here, if you really don't want anyone else to post?

And Joe's second post was sarcastic, not "insulting" members here directly, as several of yours were.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Matt
Junior Member
Username: squirrel_guy

Post Number: 95
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:11 pm:       

I've used it in the past, with varying degrees of success. It helps a little, but not nearly as much as water changes. After a couple of weeks the sand-sized media gets fully loaded with a disgusting matrix of DOC and CPM. "Refreshing" it in sea salt actually works for a couple of changes, oddly enough. You really need to use a ton of the stuff if you have a nitrate problem though, water is much cheaper.
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russ
Ancient Member
Username: rasaqua

Post Number: 3885
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:24 pm:       

Plazma,

Nitro-Zorb has been around for a while. When I had my shops, industry reps would stop by and attempt to explain what their products were all about, touting their current marketing campaign and using all the current buzz words and special sales. Sure, I would order various things that perked my curiosity and test them out.

Nitra-Zorb was a product I regularly had in stock, but not in great quantity. I test and used each and every product I sold. I insisted that much from the manufacturer reps and/or supplier reps. Did it work? Yes, it basically did what the label said it should do. It just wasn't practical as part of a aquarium maintenance protocol. I kept it as a 'specialty product' for folks that may have weird seasonal tap water issues in established tanks. Personally, I would never consider employing this on a new set up while breaking it in. Thats just my opinion. It may work to varying degrees in different water conditions in different areas. I can only attest to my local water conditions in the central mid West of the US.

I have to admit that I became a bit confused between your first post and another, by soliciting experienced members to call a toll free telephone and ask a rep questions?

I've deldt with a hundred different calls and inquiries to manufacturers who's products I sold and used in an effort to get 'the inside scoop and poop'. They will never give you the 'poop' and will (for the most part) glorify their 'scoop'. Not all, but most of the time, you will never get to talk to a tech who actually had something to do with the design or creation of a product. 99% of the time you get a 'marketing tech'.



"For every difficult question, there is an answer that is clear and simple and wrong."
(George Bernard Shaw)
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Plazma
Junior Member
Username: plazma

Post Number: 73
Registered: 02-2006


Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 01:01 pm:       

Sorry cindy i didnt mean to leave your name out all the input is always helpful my intent was not to insult anyone or try and be sarcastic sorry if it appeared that way
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
Albert Einstein
Badman's Tropical Fish - Archives * General Message Area * Archives * Archive through March 19, 2006 * Nitra-Zorb has anyone tried this?       

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