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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9759
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 04:01 pm:       

...and between orthondontic appts. at 3:15 and 3:30 and gymnastics 5:00-7:00, I won't have time to hit Google or browse here until tonight. If I don't have a quick opinion by then, I'll do that.

Brad is in love with frogs and I don't have time to rehome his violet goby and tear down the brackish tank and set it up for a tree frog or two until school gets out. In the mean time, which would make the best home for an ADF or two?: the 10 gallon Endler's tank (will it/they leave the fry alone, eat a few fry, or all of them?) or the taller 29 or 55 gallon tanks? All 3 are heavily planted, with enough vegetation at and near the surface to provide resting places, if that would make the taller tanks less undesirable as homes for it/them.

Or should we just wait until June and do it right? TIA

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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sully
Ancient Plus
Username: sully

Post Number: 8477
Registered: 01-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 05:32 pm:       

my adf's left guppy fry alone. wish they had not done that--but, oh well.

They like plants, sandy, small aggregate substrates and fish that do not attack. They lived very happily with my smaller cichlids, tetras and plecos.

They also like to lounge around driftwood.

Shrimp pellets, black worms and standard flakes were all i ever fed them. they got along very well--at least until some of the cichlids grew up...then they did not get along at all.
"I usually read the obituaries first. There is always the happy chance that one of them will make my day." -- Richard Ames
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Gopi
Advanced Member
Username: gopi

Post Number: 1757
Registered: 01-2004


Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 07:07 pm:       

I would put it in a tank where you can make sure it eats. They don't seem to be that great at the food competition thing...
There! You have a bigger tank! Will you stop plotting my death now??
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9763
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 07:25 pm:       

Thanks! If you guys think it would be OK in the Endler's tank:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3940&post=178927#POST 178927

I can use a medicine dropper or forceps to deliver frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, and other foods to it, and if it still can't scarf it up in time, I will gladly set up one of the empty tens I have. I have at least two empty ones, and spare heaters and filters - uncycled, but that's OK, right?

If you think the Endler's tank is OK, I''ll pick up an ADF (or a pair) tonight on the way home, and hit Google and read up more on their care after I get home. If not, I'll set up the spare tank tomorrow, and/or preseed the filter, and do more research before making the purchase.

Thanks!

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Lisa Blair
Junior Member
Username: lkblair

Post Number: 16
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 08:57 pm:       

Cindy, they do seem to like to have pals, so I'd recommend getting at least a pair. Check http://aquaticfrogs.tripod.com/index.html for tons of information on these little guys. We have 3 that are just a blast to watch. The kids and I seem to have fun just hunting them down. We have 3 in a 5gal tank, and there seriously have been times when we haven't been able to find any of them, they hide so well and in the tiniest little nooks and crannies. You'll definitely have to make sure they get enough to eat. All of mine are really slow at getting to it, even though they get fed at the same place and time every night. I have found that they eat better after I turn the light out on the tank, and that might make it harder for the fish to find the food, too.

Lisa
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Debra Ann
Advanced Member
Username: debraann

Post Number: 1061
Registered: 06-2004


Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 02:26 am:       

I would buy at least two. Even though I have 4 in my 29 gal. guppy tank and I've never seen them hug up together.

I agree with Lisa on the fact that you can never find them half the time. *But me and my daughter have spent a lot of time looking for them. LOL

After having mine for a while now, and observing them, I have come to the belief that they are aggresive eaters. All 4 of mine are fat now. I do try to drop food on their heads, I mean near them.

They love the Tubiflex Worm Cubes. It's hard to get them to stay down, but I have seen the ADF's swim to the top and grab a cube, shake it, until it gets a bite in it's mouth.

*They do not keep the guppy population under control.

Contrary to what you will find on other sites, they do eat flake food as Sully stated above.

Contrary to what you will find on other sites, they are strong swimmers.

29 gal.: Gups, Brigs, Platy, 1 lone blind cave fish, all live with the ADF's.

Your son will love the little guys. They hide but their fun to watch when you feed them or their just looking around the gravel for food.

HTH - Best of Luck.

If the frogs croak when you've had them only a couple of days, it will be because they came from the pet store already sick. I had to buy 6, just to end up with 4 very healthy ones.
**~I Have No Fears, Angels Follow Me Wherever I May Go~**
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Musicalfingers
Advanced Member
Username: musicalfingers

Post Number: 1458
Registered: 07-2005


Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 02:38 am:       

Croak like die, or croak like make noise/sing? I thought singing was a good thing...
Out of insanity comes brilliance...or was it the other way around?
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9776
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 06:54 am:       

I'm pretty sure from the context, Debra Ann meant croak like die.

Thank you everybody, Brad was pretty excited when we looked at them tonight. They were all so tiny and fragile looking that we decided to set up a new tank for them alone and look through several stores while reading up on them before picking some out. We will keep them in our QT for at least a week, making sure we see them eat, before putting them in their new tank in the boys room.

What we have so far seems to be this, so correct me if any of this is your typical on-line BS.

1. A ten is more than adequate, and we shouldn't go any deeper than a 10 or 20L in depth. Most sites made it sound like a 5 would actually be fine for 2-3, if kept by themselves.

2. Small, soft substrate is preferable, the smaller the better, and no coarse gravel with large spaces between particles, or marbles, etc. A barebottom tank is fine, and easier to clean, as long as we have a dark colored towel under it, and a background, possibly on both sides as well.

3. As long as there are no fish, shrimp or snail companions, filtration is unnecessary if tank is completely cleaned at least 2-3 times a week. If filtration is employed, we should use a very gentle one, a sponge filter or UGF is preferable to a HOB. The less current the better.

4. A heater is also unnecessary as long as the tank is kept consistently at at least 70 degrees, but that isn't going to happen in our house for half the year, so we will put a heater in.

6. Definitely include live plants and caves to hide in, regardless of presence or absence of substrate. My mosses and najas are fine for this, as well as really any other live plants.

7. Except for the plants, a light is totally unnecessary and we will see them more often if we don't use one.

My boys feed their fish every day, but don't maintain that tank yet. It's brackish, so that complicates the maintenance, water to mix and no algae eaters so cleaning is a bit more work.

I am thinking that if Brad has a 5 gallon barebottom, heated, unfiltered tank, with a lightweight plexi top, no hood or light, dedicated to the ADF alone, and changes 100% of the water and wipes the tank down on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, feeds them mostly frozen foods, but includes a variety of foods over the week's time, and rotates the Java moss/najas in and out of his tank and the other three on a weekly basis, that maybe my 10 year old son is ready to handle the maintenance of this one on his own, as long as I check it every day while feeding my three tanks, and maintaining the other four.

If he doesn't keep up with it, then I'll take care of all 5. I'll need to maintain the 20XH tree frog habitat we set up this summer as well, but I think having this smaller, easier tank to maintain will allow him to feel "responsible" for his pets.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Debra Ann
Advanced Member
Username: debraann

Post Number: 1062
Registered: 06-2004


Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 10:17 am:       

Your plan sounds good to me!

You could put him a little lamp by the tank if he wanted to see them better. I do have regular aquarium gravel in the tank, but a barebottom tank would be much easier to keep clean. Mine have never gotten hung in any thing even though I've read the same warnings. I did worry about them getting sucked into the filter intake until I realized what strong swimmers they are. If their healthy their strong enough to avoid the intake.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the 100% water changes 3 times a week. With a full set-up I only vac./perform water changes once a week, 50%, but with a barebottom tank and no filter it "would" make a difference. I would test the water after you have your little frogs and see just how quickly it fouls. He may be able to perform partial water changes and keep it clean. I honestly don't know.

He's going to have so much fun!
**~I Have No Fears, Angels Follow Me Wherever I May Go~**
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Lisa Blair
Junior Member
Username: lkblair

Post Number: 19
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 10:48 am:       

Cindy, sounds good. I'm with Debra Ann on the water changes. Since you'll have plants in there, they may help keep the water parameters in line so that partials will be enough. If you decide to add some low light plants, they really like the Anubias Nana. My froggies love to use the leaves as umbrellas.

Our tank is a bare bottom 5gal with a Small World filter on it. The filter is basically maintenance free aside from changing the cartridge every 3-4wks. So that or a regular sponge filter could be an option if you decide to go that route. I also have a light on mine. The frogs don't seem to mind, esp the older one. The 2 younger ones are still a bit more skittish.

I use a turkey baster to suck the debris off the bottom of the tank every day and replace the drawn off water every other day. I end up replacing between 1.5 and 2 gallons each week, depending on how much they've been playing in the najas and making it shed.

I have found that my frogs prefer the temp a bit higher - around 78. The dwarfs are tropical rather than cool water like their Xenopus cousins. I think you'll find the heater to be a welcome item in the tank.

In case you haven't found it yet, one other site to visit is http://www.pipidae.net. The forum there isn't very active, but the site owner is very experienced. If you post, he will definitely respond, as will other people on occasion. The dwar frog section of that site is mostly complete.

I do adore our little frogs, as you can tell by the way I ramble on. Besides, it's the one thing I feel like I actually know something about and can contribute here! :-)

Lisa
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 9780
Registered: 05-2003


Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 10:49 am:       

I was trying to avoid having him use the python just yet, that was also why I thought 5 gallon instead of ten. But maybe the same set up, with a ten I already have and a heater I already have, and maybe a sponge filter, could be kept clean with daily turkey baster vacuuming and 25-30% changes twice a week instead, if he uses an aquarium line siphon and a bucket to siphon the bare bottom.

That way I would save money, the frogs would have more water, Brad would learn more about "real" aquarium maintenance, it would still be manageable for a ten year old, and he wouldn't have to remember to turn off the heater? Thanks for the suggestions, Debra Ann & Lisa...you've got me doing some more thinking...

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Debra Ann
Advanced Member
Username: debraann

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 06-2004


Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 06:09 pm:       


**~I Have No Fears, Angels Follow Me Wherever I May Go~**
Badman's Tropical Fish - Archives * Other Aquatic Pets * Considering getting Brad an ADF....       

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