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Val
Junior Member
Username: Val

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 01:56 pm:       

I had 3 small pearlscales & a small black moor in a 20gal tank, I did a 3 gal water change twice a week and these guys were really healthy - at least I thought they were. They ate well and I kept the temp around 74 as I feel that "fancy" goldfish seem happier in slightly warmer water. I had these guys for about 5 years and then one by one as they got larger they succumbed to swimbladder problems. I little guy bobbed around on the bottom of the tank & couldn't rise up - another was bobbing on the top & couldn't go down, I found that this problem seemed to affect them all of a sudden. The black moor went the same way he too was floating on the top of the water and periodically used to float upside down. I wrote to knowledgeable fishkeeper seeking a cure but he said there was nothing that could be done. I kept them like this for about a year - I was feeding them by hand as they were unable to swim to get food for themselves but I could not stand to see them have no 'quality' of life so I euthanased them. This experience has completely put me off ever keep 'fancy' goldfish again, I really loved these little guys.
I have still got 2 fantails in another tank and so far they seem fine but their body is more streamlined.
I would be interested in others thoughts.

Val.
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cindy
Moderator
Username: Cindy_m

Post Number: 4425
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 03:59 pm:       

Did you ever test your water for nitrates? If you had, you would probably have been changing a lot more water a lot more often.

I wouldn't keep 4 fancy GF in anything smaller than a 55. I have 4 in a 55 now, but it will only be a temporary home, not for their full lives. They should all grow 3-4 inches a year (or more) if housed appropriately. If you had them 5 years, they should have all been full grown, and even one wouldn't have fit (comfortably) in that tank:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/9403/27041.jpg

All GF produce a lot of ammonia and need extra good filtration and water change/gravel vac schedule. If you replace them with the comets or other more slim-bodied GF, they grow even larger than the full-bodied fancies. They may not succumb to roll-over, but something else will likely kill them in the 20.

Come on...you know you love the Gf, so go get a really big tank for them, while they seem much too small to need it, and see just how quickly they will fill it up. They look beautiful swimming around in a bigger tank...you'll love the tank and so will they!


3 - 10's, a 15, a 20H brackish, a 20L river tank, a 29, 3 - 55's, a 75, and a 120 gallon native fish tank
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Val
Junior Member
Username: Val

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 01:25 pm:       

Cindy - I have just seen your adult red oranda pic.!!!!!!!!
I am flabergasted, I hope you don't mind but I downloaded that pic to show a friend of mine. Right ,back to my pearlscales - who I now feel profoundly sorry for! I'm in the UK and believe me, here a 20 gal tank for 4 goldfish is considered huge. But I can now see that it is not huge at all. Are you in fact saying that given enough room they WOULD NOT have developed swimbladder problems?? because if so then this is really exciting, I can't tell you how excited I feel just writing this. O.K. O.K. you're right I do love goldfish, but I would never keep them in the same conditions because it just didn't work, For what it is worth, the nitrates were in fact very low, but maybe not low enough? You know what I love most of all about goldfish - apart from the fact that they are very beautiful, you never have to worry about comptibility.
I am waiting for your reply with bated breath as to whether cramped conditions can cause swimbladder problems.
Val
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cindy
Moderator
Username: Cindy_m

Post Number: 4434
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2004 - 09:43 pm:       

lol!...it's not my fish, just a pic I like to share to illustrate how big they get when full grown.

I kept 4 in a 20 at home before I knew any better, and lost one a year (on average) to rollover and SWD, and one to dropsy. I switched them to a 55 in my classroom a year and a half ago and they grew much larger and the only one I lost was to an accident when a substitute teacher was in my room. Anecdotal evidence at best, and not a large sample or for long enough, but I have been told this by several breeders and I believe them. You can see pics of the tank and 4 GF in other threads on this forum.

Of course, I'd really like to give them a much larger tank, or even a pond...
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.
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JLH
Ancient Member
Username: Gfg

Post Number: 152
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 12:26 am:       

More room and a good diet seem to be what keeps the air bladder problems away. Now saying that some fish will develope problems no matter what you do. I had a ryukin I sent for surgury and when they opened him up he only had one part of his air bladder, so genetically he was going to have problems. Varried diets and room to grow properly seem to do a ton. So does keeping nitrates at 15 or less. Feeding sinking food also helps some fish. Now some types like pearlscales and ryukins are best to buy when they are almost adults as a huge percent of the younger ones seem to have trouble at some point. All my adult ryukins and pearls have no problems where some younger ones do. Again many do to bad breeding, breeding for too extream of traits, or other genetic trouble.
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Val
Regular Member
Username: Val

Post Number: 52
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 05:33 pm:       

Thanks for info JLH my pearlscales were tiny wneh I bought them, not much larger than marbles and I nursed them along for 5 years only to have the wrteched swimbladder problem affect them one by one. But as you say a great percentage will be genetically disposed to it anyway. Very sad.
20 gallon Catfish; 20 gallon goldfish; 47.5 gallon ????
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Susan Burkhart
New Member
Username: Skbmo

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 09:41 pm:       

This is all very interesting to me. I have a 30 gallon hex and HAD 6 fancy goldfish in it - 2 pearl scale, 1 red oranda, 1 blue oranda, 1 black moor and 1 telescoping eye calico. I said HAD, because there are only three left - the black moor, the red oranga, and 1 pearl scale ( who is currently sickly). the tank has an undergravel filter and a power filter and gets weekly 25% water changes. I had no idea my stocking density was too high. The fish eat well but are not growing very fast. The pearl scale spends all day lying in a flower pot leaning to one side, but comes out to eat. Two of the ones who died had swim bladder problems, the pearl scale seemed to develop some type of wasting problem after I picked a fish louse off of him - don't have any idea where the louse came from. So anyway, now I know - these guys needed a bigger tank.
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Evangeline
Junior Member
Username: tonkaholics

Post Number: 15
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 04:30 am:       

During the AQUARAMA 2005 exhibit this year, some of the breeders i talked to said they found orandas tended to have more swimbladder problems. It has something to do with body length and roundness of the belly which is considered beautiful.

I don't know if cramped tank conditions are a cause of swimbladder, although cramped conditions are bad for everything.

Here at our fish farms, even with just 2 GFs in a huge 6-7 foot tank, they can still get swimbladder problems.

I agree though that getting full grown fish has a definite advantage over the baby ones.. cute as they are... genetic dispositions are unknown
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