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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 09:06 am:       

After my daughter broke our heating lamp, while having the aquarium in storage, we decided to go with goldfish, as they required no heater and they're such beautiful fish. We've had them almost a year now.

We have two fantail goldfish in a 10 gallon tank, which we were informed was plenty big enough. I change the water once a week, usually at least 20%, but oft times more than that.

I look at green water for about 5 out of every 7 days. The filter gets changed almost every 3 weeks now and I'm really starting to dislike my aquarium, I almost always can't see the background at the back of the tank.

So, will a more powerful filter help? Are there filters that are more suited to goldfish, seeing as how they are dirty fish? Is it the water here, should I consider filtering the water before using it? I just don't know what to do.

It seemed okay for the first two months, clear water, no problems. I feed them very little, once a day. I hope someone has some ideas, changing the water more than once a week seems especially difficult with a baby and a toddler at home with me.
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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 09:32 am:       

We just measured the fish, they're both just shy of 3" long.
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 6684
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 10:12 am:       

Your tank is too small for 2 GF. IMO - it is too small for even one, except temporarily, maybe 6 months, with lots of large water changes and vigorous gravel vacs.

Each will get to a foot long, and should be 5-6 inches long now, after a year. Keeping them in too small a tank has probably stunted them, but it may be reversible if you take action quickly. Until you can get a larger tank, at least 29 gallons, try upping your maintenance to 50-60% water changes/gravel vacs every week, even better, 2-3 times a week, and rinse that cartridge every time also, instead of waiting 3 weeks..

That would have kept the nitrogenous wastes low enough to avoid green water (and have allowed your GF to have outgrown that tank even faster!)

You didn't say what filter you have, and you may need a larger one, but that won't affect the green water much. Nitrogenous wastes and mulm in the gravel have a much greater effect.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 286
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 12:12 pm:       

We need to know what filter like Cindy said, and you shouldn't be changing the entire filter cartrige. (Now I can't remeber which is which, so I may have this backwards and someone here will hopefully correct me.) You should open the old filter cartrige and remove the frame. Put the old frame in the new filter cartige. close and "seal" the new fitler cartrige and then put in filter. That way you won't lose much of your bacterial colonies, and the old bacteria will get into the new charcoal and get to work so that your tank will not have to keep cycling. And like Cindy said, you should do LOTS of water changes and gravel vacs until you can relocate them to bigger homes. I like to gravel vac 50% on a small tank. (I usually get too tired to do that with the 55.(

~Karen~
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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 03:11 pm:       

I do gravel vac and change 50-65% of the water weekly, sometimes more often than that, but when I do it more than once a week I do one big water change and one slightly smaller one.

I am changing only the cartridge. It's a Wal-Mart filter, it's meant for 10-20 gallon tanks.

The fish are 3.5-4" long, depending on how still you can get them to be so you can get an estimated measurement. When we got them the store where we bought them, a Petsmart, said two would be fine. I have no desire, room, or money to get a larger tank and I'm having trouble seeing how goldfish are interesting when there are so few fish in the tank.

So the green water isn't something a filter helps?
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Sylvia
Junior Member
Username: orandagal

Post Number: 22
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 04:14 pm:       

I have found that the Regent filters from Walmart are useless in a goldfish tank, I use mostly Aqua Clear filters. You will need to move your fish out of the 10 gallon if you want them to live a long healthy life, how about using a rubbermaid clear plastic box that holds at least 30 to 40 gallons or find a friend with a large tank who would love your goldfish or return them to the pet store and stock your 10 gallon with a few smaller fish such as guppies or platies. To give you some idea, I am getting a 108 gallon tank that will hold 10 goldfish for a while, 7 orandas, 1 ryukin, 2 telescope and that is to many, my tank will be overstocked as they grow larger. Goldfish are not really "dirty fish" it is just that they are Large fish so they eat more and they poop more. Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.
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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 290
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, April 15, 2005 - 07:33 pm:       

Ruth, If you have no desire to provide your fish with larger homes, then please consider giving them to someone who already has a larger tank. It's not fair that your fish should be in bad conditions. A 10g is simply too samll for them. Sylivia is right, If you are looking for a group of cute fish to watch interaction between, then you should get some guppies or platies. The only problem there is that you need a heater. As for the fact that the worker at petsmart said they would be fine, that means virtually nothing. Most people there don't know a thing about fish. I've actually had petco worker tell me that she would noramlly say whatever would be the easiest when she didn't know what the right answer was. And another lie to me when I knew the truth.

You said that your GF were 2 in long in the first post, and 3.5 - 4 in the last, which would be the closest? And you also said 20% water changes and 50% water changes. I beleive you ment that you usually do 50%, but the bare minumum is 20%? Have you had your water tested? The test "results" will help us to know if there's a water imbalance that's possibly causing the dirty water.

The rubbermaid idea is great, and doesn't cost very much.
~Karen~
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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 02:19 pm:       

I do 50% water changes once a week and 20% around day 3 or 4 so that I can see the fish.

Around the same time as the water started giving us trouble we removed the bubble stone from the aquarium. Does that make a difference?

I am curious if a better filter would support the fish. I guess I'll be trying to find a home for them, I just don't have space for more. I have two small children and taking on a bigger chore seems unwise (and that rules the Rubbermaid idea out, but it is great!).

Thanks for answering what kind of fish would be an alternative. You all have been very helpful.

How would I go about getting my water tested?
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Betsy
Regular Member
Username: betsy

Post Number: 771
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 04:34 pm:       

You can buy test kits from your local fish store (lfs) or a pet store, or you can take a sample to your lfs. Most will test your water for free- just make sure they give you numerical values, instead of telling you your water is "good", "bad" or something similar. You are looking for tests for nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia. In a properly cycled tank, you should have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and measureable nitrate. Ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish. Nitrate is toxic to fish in higher levels. It can also be feeding your algae bloom. You want your nitrate to be at least below 20 ppm (parts per million), preferably below 10 ppm.
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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 09:05 pm:       

Well, just did another 20% change, after the 60% on Friday. They really seem to need a bigger home.

What would the ideal size for these two fantails be? Can they live in a tank that isn't long horizontally, but rather tall? I was under the impression they needed more surface area though.
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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 318
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 11:40 pm:       

Surface area and height are both important. leangth is most important, but it should be relatively high. A 30g would probably do nicely for hte two, but someone with more goldy experience will have to tell you.
~Karen~
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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 12:27 am:       

The one I've found and like is 24x24x24 and is a 60 gallon tank.

What else could I add to this tank, if I were to have a 60 gallon? Another goldfish? Maybe a black moor, my hubby likes those.
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Sylvia
Junior Member
Username: orandagal

Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 07:25 am:       

The square tank you want is not appropriate for goldfish as they grow larger. The ideal tank length is 20 times the size of the largest fish which is impossible for most of us with larger sized fishies so, I try to go for a minimum of 10. If your fish will be 5 inches full grown then the tank length should be at least 50 inches.
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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 05:44 pm:       

I guess I'll be looking for a tank and asking about people taking them, but I rather hoped they were permanent additions to the family.

Anyone have a favorite tank? Are some better than others, how much better, guess I'll peruse the board a bit.
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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 327
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 09:49 pm:       

A 55g is 48 in wide, is that OK?
~Karen~
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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 03:34 pm:       

Yeah, that would work, I'd think. I hope so, that's a pretty big tank.

Someone said a 30 would work, but it'd never have that much surface area, would it?
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 6724
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 03:43 pm:       

I jumped from a 20 to a 55. It is (again) only temporary. The biggest problem with the 55 is that it is only 12 inches from front to back...a full grown GF won't be able to turn around easily.

That being said, I have two in a 55 now, and they will be moving to the 120, as soon as I release the native fish in it.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 09:49 pm:       

Interesting information cindy. I didn't even think about the turning around thing. Wow.

You think, it's small little goldfish, what harm could it be .... sigh ...
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 6727
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 04:45 am:       

It can be done, if you are up to the extra water maintenance and the expense of "upgrading" periodically. It costs so much more to buy a complete 20 gallon set-up, then a 30, then a 55, then a 75, then a 125, and finally a pond that I suggest to most people to start with the 55...even for 2-3 GF.

If money is not your limiting factor and you have MTS anyway, and no problem filling the outgrown tanks...go for it.



"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Ruth E
New Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 09:04 pm:       

How large is it recommended goldfish be before they can be released into a pond? I do understand it should be deep and not freeze over, not hard in Texas, but I am curious. Ultimately I was hoping to put them in our own pond, with some koi eventually.
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 6740
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 05:40 am:       

There is no minimum size, once in the pond they will likely spawn every spring, so anything the size of newly hatched fry on up are fine in a pond.

If they are larger than the mouths of the koi you will initially stock with, go for it. How big is your pond? I assume you know that the koi will eventually be 3 feet long, like any other adult carp...and even though small when you stock them, you should not stock more than one per thousand gallons, and less would be better in the long run.



"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Ruth E
Junior Member
Username: ruth

Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 09:18 pm:       

I finally managed to clear my water problem up. It seems when I was doing my weekly water change / gravel vac that I was missing the back of the aquarium. It's been clear ever since that first time I did it.

My goldfish are seeming to lay on the bottom of the tank a lot all of a sudden though. I'm hoping there is nothing wrong with them.
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Evangeline
Junior Member
Username: tonkaholics

Post Number: 11
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, July 01, 2005 - 03:45 am:       

Hallo ruth, greetings from Singapore

your Gfs are not feeling well. it's been more than a month since u last posted hope by now they are?

the green water u had previously was most likely due to an algae bloom and in this situation XS changing of the water rarely helps as the spores of the algae are all over the place.
in situations like this, u need to clean out your filters more often and to add stuff in it to help clear the excess nutrients ( nitrates and phosphates).
try not to feed too much food, no direct sunlight.

GFs should always be lively and swimming around. even when they sleep at night they are never slumped at the bottom or corner.
the minute they just sit in corners or at the top ... and don't move, u know u have a problem.

please do not release GFs that were bought for in-house into an external pond. the landscaping of ex. ponds can injure their delicate scales.

GFs poop a lot ( they don't have noraml stomaches like us so food can move directly through) so u need a good filtration system. a canister would prob do the job very well. please remember to treat the water always... before putting into tank.

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