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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 654
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:11 am:       

My sister and I just couldn't resist this poor little black moor at walmart. He's such a cutie! At walmart he wasn't moving a whole lot (but he didn't really have any room to) but otherwise looked healthy. It was just so sad looking at them that i wanted to cry! We got him Saturday night and put him in a cycled 10g that I had. He was swimming around a little more exploring and looking for food, but today he is laying on the gravel a lot. He isn't breathing hard or seem sick otherwise, he's just spending a lot of time staying near or on the ground. Right now I am just trying to feed him flakes because I havn't been able to get a better food for him yet. I've just been taking a tiny pinch and holding it underwater until it's soft enough to sink. He was curious about my hand but would not take the food from it. He didn't eat any of the food that fell either so should I be worried?

also... We're going GF shopping tomorrow to get him food and probably one moore small black moor from petco or an lfs to keep him company. Speaking from experience, what would you suggest as the commercial (flake/pelleted) food to be fed along with the frozen treats?

speaking longer term... I did do a little bit of research but found different info on them. I read they are schooling, or at least liked to have a few others with them, so I want to get him some friends later. I am planning on just getting the one small one to keep him company for a while though. How long would you say the 2 could safely live in a 10g? (the 1 now is only 1.5 in. or so) And when they outgrow there tank (or whenever I can afford a larger) how large should it be? I want to have at least 3 black moors, or maybe 4 or 5? If possible I don't want to go bigger than a 55g, but I have a feeling that's not going to be big enough...

ok sorry this is getting to be long so i'll stop asking questions. ;)

Thanks for your help!
"I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees." - Dr Seuss

I speak for the mollies, "give us marine salt." -me and the mollies
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 7641
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:52 am:       

If the ten is all you can afford right now, I would wait to get the companion. Social as they are, they produce a lot of ammonia and need clean water more than they need friends. His behavior right now tells me you need to test your water for ammonia and do a quick water change. If you continue to keep him in the ten, even alone, I would change several gallons of water each day.

Personal, I would not keep any GF, regardless of current size, in anything smaller than a 20. Or 2 GF in a 30, or 4 in 40 gallons, or 5 in a 55. Even that would only be for 2-3 years. It will get close to a foot when full grown, in 5 or so years (if it lives that long) and a 4 foot long 55 gallon tank is not really even big enough for one alone.

They will live 20+ years if you don't kill them, so think long term when "rescuing" GF.

http://members.aol.com/sirchin/goldfish.htm



"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 655
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 01:05 pm:       

we sat and thought long term for about 1/2 an hour at walmart, but sadly there wasn't a computer to do research on him while he was there. We decided we could get him as big a tank as he needed or would give him a pond. I now see that black moors don't usually make good pond goldfish, is that true? we're turning our sun room into a bedroom so i am going to try to put a tank in there. I am willing to do whatever he needs to rescue him and if i can't give him the long term care he needs i will find someone localy who can. Yoiu've said a lot "if he lives that long" does that mean you think that being in a 10g is going to hurt him or that he's probably sick? Please don't think we bought him to stick him in a bowl and consider it "rescuing". We bought him to give him a good life. I realy just want him to be happy and we're both willing to find him another home if need be later on.

We did a 90% water change sat night, and the amonia is 0, nitrite 0, and it is reading less then 5 for nitrate, but I think my nirtate probably reads a little low. (it's an AP kit) I'm going to do another 100% cange today just to get the gravel really clean. For tank mates what about a small school of what clouds? I know there isn't room for 6 but maybe 3 or 4? I would up the white cloud numbers after he's promoted to a larger tank. Most of the stuff I read last night said they only get 6-7 in, which is why I came here to find out from people who know from experience. A 125 or pond is going to be the biggest possible size, but even then that's going to atke a long time to get (probably meaning years). Would a 75 be large enough, or even that or a 55 for just a few years? I realy need your advise on tanks!

"I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees." - Dr Seuss

I speak for the mollies, "give us marine salt." -me and the mollies
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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 656
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 01:12 pm:       

I have a 55g he could go in now, but the temps at 77-80. I could turn it down to 75-76, but I don't want to do that long term. The fish in it now are black phantom tetras, cory cats, and 3 juvi apistos.
"I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees." - Dr Seuss

I speak for the mollies, "give us marine salt." -me and the mollies
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 7653
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 08:12 am:       

They get larger than that and quite full-bodied. Here is one that a member at AH owns that is 9 inches SL, not counting the tail:

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/19194paofu1.jpg

It is much too large for a 55. The bioload of a fish like that is a LOT higher than for 9 one-inch long fish. I would not mix GF and tropicals.

I recently decided that I didn't want to upgrade my 55 gallon GF tank, which had 3 5-6" SL GF in it, and rehomed them. You just have to decide what you want long term, then do whatever it takes to provide adequate care for them. If you decide not to shop for it's adult size in the beginning, and go the upgrade route, it will cost more in the long run, but you may not mind the extra tanks and have no trouble filling them as they empty. But if you don't make the upgrades before they are needed, you may start to see signs that you waited too long to upgrade.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 663
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 01:24 pm:       

Thanks Cindy. What does SL mean? side long?

I kept reading that black moors like their water warmer then most gf--is this true? I might have done something stupid but yesterday I decided to see if he liked being in the 55g when the temperature was at 76... so I acclimated him to the tank and put him in it. He's doing a whole lot better. He's being a normal goldfish now, swimming "gracefully" around sampling plant matter and looking much happier. I think as long as it stays peacful I am going to leave him in the 55g until I can get another one just for him and a friend (or two).

When I get him another tank it will probably be a kit with a heater, so should I stay in CW boundaries or should I try to keep it 76/77 degrees?


"I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees." - Dr Seuss

I speak for the mollies, "give us marine salt." -me and the mollies
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 7657
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 08:39 am:       

I kept the 55 for my three at 74-76o, warmer than my CW fish (room temperature, which is 70o in summer and 60-66o in the winter) and cooler than my tropicals (80-82o.) I've heard keeping the more round bodied ones warmer minimizes the digestive impactions/constipation/rollover, etc. It worked for me. Lots of fresh veggies helps, too. Mine loved fresh baby spinach and orange slices the best, but almost any other fresh veggies and fibrous fruits were well received.

I don't think you will have a problem housing them together temporarily, as long as you watch your water quality, and are willing to up the water change percentages/frequency. Ideally, for the long term, separate tanks are best. Even feeding is a problem, most fancy GF move slower and more gracefully, one of the reasons we love them, and they can't compete with the darting tropicals at feeding time.

SL is Standard Length, which means body only, not including the tail.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Karen Curry
Regular Member
Username: the_fish_fan

Post Number: 665
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 12:32 pm:       

Thanks, standard legnth makes more sense then side long. Our Sigmond really likes to play with the snails algae wafers and shrimp pellets... is this normal? I also think he's been eating on pond snails which i geuss is a good sign of muscular jaws? I usually feed the tropicals at the top when I feed flakes and the GF at bottom, and then when I give them their frozen treats I'll give him something extra too.

Thanks again for all your help, I'm sure I'll be back soon when I start settin gup his tank.
"I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees." - Dr Seuss

I speak for the mollies, "give us marine salt." -me and the mollies
Badman's Tropical Fish - Archives * Coldwater Keepers * Black moor GF (I broke down and rescued a walmart fish)       

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