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Amy
Regular Member
Username: amy

Post Number: 898
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 09:52 am:       

I have a 75 gallon tank with 1/2-inch size river rock gravel, medium hardness water, and about 7.8 pH. would this be suitable for goldfish?

am currently in the process of selling off my plants, guppies and platies...

the water seems to maintain about 80 degrees in the summer(2-3 months here in Vermont). is that really too warm? would get much colder in winter, but I would obviously use a heater, just set lower...

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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 7792
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 12:07 pm:       

It would be fine for 3-4 "fancies," like orandas and black moors. The rounder bodied GF do better at warmer temps and don't grow as large as commons (feeders) and comets. Any plants you don't sell will be welcomed by them, too.

They are even longer lived than the cichlids you have also been considering, 20-25 years is not uncommon. They would be a simpler transition from the livebearers you have, thriving in nearly identical conditions.





"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Amy
Regular Member
Username: amy

Post Number: 900
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 12:27 pm:       

is the pH too high?

do they like the gravel? what do they need for decorations or other tank setup?

could any other livestock go in with them? I'm guessing keep the pleco? seems like a 75 with only 4 goldfish would be kindof boring...

any particular type you recommend?

still wondering if the best thing would be to sell off all the fishkeeping stuff and give the tank to hubby for a vivarium. I'll never get the whole thing sold together as a complete setup for a decent price, I'm guessing...


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Amy
Regular Member
Username: amy

Post Number: 903
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 05:19 pm:       

which type of fancies would be easiest to keep and possibly stay smaller so I could have more of them?

from the reading I've been doing, it looks like I should keep the moss balls, vals, anubias...

for inhabitants, what about keeping the apple snails, pleco, and possibly the emerald cories?

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Megan
Regular Member
Username: jacksonsmom25

Post Number: 439
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 06:34 pm:       

Amy,

I thought you were looking for someting alittle less maintance and time consuming?
IMO, goldfish are just as time consuming if not more so, as the fish you are getting rid of. They are a bit more dirty, although very entertaining.
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Amy
Regular Member
Username: amy

Post Number: 904
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 07:07 pm:       

are they? at least I woudn't be constantly maintaining stem plants...
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Amy
Regular Member
Username: amy

Post Number: 905
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 08:01 pm:       

would a fluval 404 be enough filtration on the 75 gallon for 3-4 fancies, some white clouds or danios, apple snails, and a pleco?

how exactly are they more time consuming? I'm not trying to argue, just tryng to find out what I may be getting into...

I also like the idea of cichlids, as you saw in the other thread, but it looks really hard to find some that are compatible with each other...

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Megan
Regular Member
Username: jacksonsmom25

Post Number: 441
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 08:38 pm:       

Well, I only have one Fancy, an Oranda named spot. He is by himself in a 29g and if I don't do waterchanges every 3 days, the trates go way up and he starts to get sickly. But thats just him, when I got him he was sick to begin with, maybe you would have better luck with the fancies you purchase. I just know that goldfish are very dirty, and I think that equals to a dirty tank alittle more often than the tropical fish. I think Cindy or Sylvia would be able to tell you a bit more in detail. I am just a beginner with Orandas. Same with the filtration, I have no clue about that.
Good luck, keep us posted.
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Amy
Regular Member
Username: amy

Post Number: 906
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 08:50 pm:       

thanks. anyone else have ideas?
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 7797
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 06:11 am:       

Sorry, busy weekend. I may miss a few Q's, but here goes:

GF, like native fish, your current livebearers, and the African cichlids you are considering, thrive in hard, alkaline water, so your water is ideal. The prefer smaller substrate, so they can "work" it between meals, but will be fine. That size gravel is very attractive, one of my favorites. I found it too difficult to vac every week, and eventually gave in to my GF's desire to "work" the gravel without giving up the pebbles by pouring smaller gravel in and letting it settle through the larger pebbles. Every time I vac, the pebbles go to the bottom of the layer with the smaller gravel on top, and the GF are in heaven. By the time I see lots of pebbles at the surface, I know it is time to vac again. You can see the change in substrate between the first two sets of pics of the 55 here:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/9403/9569.html?1075621 748

A year later, a substitute in my classroom accidentally killed the oranda when he lifted a piece of the slate and dropped it on him. I replaced him with a tiny baby oranda, but I probably shouldn't have, because 6 months later the tank was getting crowded and I rehomed the "black" moor. This past May, it was getting crowded with just 3, and rather than rehome another one, I gave them all to a friend with a pond. A 55 is just to darn small for more than two, and honestly, even for one permanently, once they are full grown:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/9403/31061.jpg

If any stem plants are left behind, especially anacharis, the GF will keep it "trimmed" for you. I changed 50% of the water each week in the 55, same as my other tanks, anytime that wasn't sufficient to keep the nitrates low, I knew it was time to thin the herd.

If your tank is at least 4 feet long, the same as a 55, but more room to turn in it, I really think it would be acceptable, even if not ideal, as a permanent home for at least one, and maybe two GF, but not 3. However, there is nothing wrong with starting out with up to a half dozen. You will probably lose a couple along the way - I find that most stores don't sell top quality GF and you can expect one or two to be predisposed to genetic problems when they get larger - and if you don't, you can always trade the extras back in at your LFS, usually for more money than you paid for them. The larger orandas, ryukins and butterfly tails will be in demand by your LFS. I would stay away from black moors unless you get them from a breeder. I have only raised two in the last ten years, both from PETsMART, and both began to change colors at about 3 inches:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/discus/messages/9403/26372.html?109837 3714

You won't get much in trade for those. I believe the stores like PETsMART sell a lot of $2 GF that have been bred randomly, and would only get black moor from a breeder.

Your 404 will provide excellent biological filtration for the GF, but I would add a powerful mechanical filter like a Emperor 400 or an AC 500 to the other end of the tank, a lone canister just doesn't quite cut it mechanically for GF.

"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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Amy
Regular Member
Username: amy

Post Number: 908
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 08:04 am:       

the sponges and floss inside the canister don't do it? I don't have room a the back for a HOB filter. would I be better going back to the idea of cichlids? how do I make sure I get compatible ones?
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cindy
Ancient Plus
Username: cindy

Post Number: 7798
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 12:30 pm:       

They will if you open it up to rinse or replace them every week. I guess I am just lazy, but I hate messing with my two canisters any more than I have to, about every 3 months.

The Proquatics 2400 on my 120 only filters 240 gallons per hour. IMO - 2 X per hour isn't strong enough to do the job for any fish, but especially for my native fish. The Fluval 403 on my 75 only cranks through 317 GPH, so it isn't much better. Neither creates enough suction for the "heavy" poop my GF and native fish pass, so I have an AC 500 on each tank too, with extra extensions on the intakes to draw in water from the bottom of the water column, targeting poop and uneaten food. I have the canisters drawing from just a few inches below the surface.

It works well for my needs, but I don't think there is such a thing as an understocked or over filtered tank, so your Fluval alone may be fine.


"The only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve." --- Albert Schweitzer

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