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Ick !!
Badmans Tropical Fish Message Center: archive: Ick !!
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Tina
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Monday,
July 16, 2001 - 06:38 am
Hello everyone! I am a new member. I have a situation here...
I have a 37 gallon freshwater tank with the Eclipse 3 system and
Biowheel.
One week ago we got a Blue Gourami, a Black Fan Tail Tetra, a Pictus
Catfish, a Red Platy and a Black and white dalmation Molly. Everything
seemed fine and i guess I didn't look at the fins of the fish
too closely
at the end of the week becuase they all seemed happy and healthy
(and
because I'm new at this) so we got our second batch of fish.
We got a
Aquatic Frog, a Spotted Raphael, 2 male Fancy Tailed Guppies a Black
tailed Platy and another Dalmation Molly. Anyway, an hour or so
after we
had aready released the new fish, I noticed that the Tetra (one
of our
first fish) had a few white speckles on his back fin. This morning
there
were a few more on him so I'm assuming it's "ick".
We just added
"Maracide" and took the Bio wheel out since it said to remove
it when
adding medication. My question(s) :
1)Am I doing this correctly?
2)Should I just have taken the Tetra out? I think it was rubbing
on the
other fish so I assumed I needed to treat the whole tank...
3)How should I store the Biowheel during this period? On the
info booklet
that came with it, it just said keep it moist and exposed to air...But
how? In a bowl halfly submerged in water? I don't know but that's
what I'm
doing....
Any help would be MUCH appreciated, I'm very worried about my
fish.
Thank you!!!
-Tina
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Kick
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Monday,
July 16, 2001 - 08:41 am
Tina, I have never used Maracide for ick, but upon checking a bottle
that I have it does,indeed, say it will work for the ick parasite.
The only thing I am concerned about and don't know if this ingredient
will hurt scaleless fish (pictus cat), but it does contain
Aniline green. I know you do not want to add Malachite green with
scaleless fish, however, there is no mention of this ingredient
in the Maracide. I think the reason this nasty pest has showed up
in your tank is that you are adding too many fish too soon, creating
stress in the tank. Only 2 fish per week should be added to the
tank until it is stocked to alleviate stress and to keep the balance
of the tank in order. You need to be watching your water perimeters
(ammonia/nitrite) very closely as adding this many fish
at a time can create too much bioload that the bacteria can't
keep up with in the beginning. Which brings me to another point.
You should not remove the biowheel or let it dry out. This is where
most of your beneficial bacteria are and if allowed to dry out,
the bacteria will die. It also needs to be kept in the original
aquarium water as this is where the food will be in order for it
to survive. Certain medications tell you to remove the "carbon
filter" in order for the medication to work, but as far as I
know, the biowheel is for aeration and the housing of beneficial
bacteria which helps keep the tank in balance. Medication may kill
off part of this bacteria, but as a general rule I do not remove
it when treating a tank.
Even tho the tetra was the only one with "spots", the whole
tank needed to be treated. The ick parasite starts in "cysts"
in the substrate of your tank, and only when they hatch and have
to find a host do you see the parasite visible on the fish.
How long have you had this tank up and running? It may be possible
that you brought the ick home with you, either with the water or
being not yet visible on a fish, but I still prefer to think that
stress as caused this dilema for you.
A couple of other facts I want to mention are about the mollies
and the frog. ollies need a good big of aquarium salt in their water
for health, however, with the others you have purchased (tetra
and catfish), too much salt will burn their skin. The mollies
may not do well in this tank for this reason. You didn't mention
what type of grog you purchased, but some species are not good kept
in with tropicals. Some are aggressive and look at the fish as food,
chasing and trying to capture for something good to eat.
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Kick
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Monday,
July 16, 2001 - 08:52 am
Pardon all the typos above. I guess I didn't proofread very
well.
Just wanted to throw in that one thing you need to remember about
keeping fish. When you purchase them from the LPS, they are usually
juveniles and will grow to their normal adult size and not to the
size of the tank. Also a couple of the fish you purchased are shoaling
fish, which means they like to be in groups of 5 or 6. The tetras
and guppies fall into this category. You may want to keep this in
mind, and maybe rethink this tank just a little. A group of shoaling
fish is much prettier than having a discordant group of various
species.
Sure hope I have helped you. Please don't think I am being harsh.
Being new to the hobby can be maddening sometimes, and I am just
trying to give you some points to make it a little more enjoyable.
You have found a good site for information both at the main area
and here on the message board. Stick around and there will always
be someone to help you.
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jsopel (Jeff)
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Monday,
July 16, 2001 - 10:46 am
tina..try Rid Ich+...It will work better for those malachite
green sensitive fish..follow the directions and continue treatment
for 3 days after all the spots are gone..and as kick mentioned get
the bio-wheel back on your filter.
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PetFinatic
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Monday,
July 16, 2001 - 12:07 pm
Thank you everybody for all your help!
First, Kick, the type of frog I have is an African Dwarf Frog. He
seems pretty happy and no one is picking on him yet and he is too
small to eat any of the fish.
The Mollies look good and are very active. The original one we got
seems to be picking on the new one though.
We've only had the tank up and running for a week now. I agree
we moved to fast by getting the second batch of fish so quick. We
just thought everyone looked good, and we were too eager. I'm
sorry I made that mistake. I am new at this and will try not to
make any other big mistakes.
What water testing kit do you recommend?
Jeff, I am currently using the Maracide and am a little scared to
combine another medication at this point. I will see what happens
and if the Ich doesn't clear up after a week, I'll try the
Rid-Ich+. Thank you for the suggestion.
Thanks again!
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Kick
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Tuesday,
July 17, 2001 - 10:11 am
Hi again, Tina. You will have to jump back and forth between this
message and the one you left at the general message area, as I answered
you there too. Since you have already treated with the Maracide,
don't use anything else at this point. Mixing medications is
harder on the fish and from what I read on my Maracide bottle there
is no MG in the Maracide. Usually if the fish are going to be sensitive,
you will notice this right away.
The african dwarf frog is small now, but he will grow. I really
think I would consider returning him or placing him in his own tank.
Joyce can better help you with frogs as I am not too knowledgable
on them.
I really feel that you are headed for big trouble! If you have only
had this tank set up for one week, have all these fish and experiencing
ick (not to mention that your tank has not begun to cycle yet),
I am in fear that your tank mates may be doomed! And since you have
the ick present in the tank, there is no way that your LPS will
allow you to return some of these guys so that you can start over
with a much better understanding of getting a tank in proper order.
There are many test kits to choose from. I use the Master test kit
from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals which uses drops to test. Whatever
you decide, you need to get one immediately. With this many fish,
you are going to see a very high spike of ammonia from their waste
and feeding, and this is going to be terribly hard on your fish.
You need to test every day and be ready to change a portion of your
water frequently in order not to poison the fish. And then all the
water changes will make it doubly hard for your tank to cycle. That
is one of the main reasons for going slowly when stocking fish.
The next thing I fear for you is very cloudy water from the bacteria
bloom that you will probably experience. They will work overtime
trying to get this tank in check.
Honest to God, Tina, I am not trying to be mean here. But so many
times, folks run out, buy a tank, set it up, fill with fish and
expect everything to be all right. And I do blame the LPS for most
of this. If they "knew" you were a newbie, they should never
have sold you all these fish in the first place. The LPS is there
to make money, and unless you can find someone who will take the
time to help and guide you in the right direction, you are basically
on your own. In your case, you have found us....a little late in
any sense of the word.....but we are trying to help you. Too bad
it has to be after the fact, however. Keep us posted on what is
going on with the tank, do not add any more fish until we tell you
it is all right and what else to add, and if I have not turned you
off completely, you can email me for more assistance. I just get
so upset when newbies start out, and the LPS does nothing to help
them be successful. It is not your fault that things have started
out this way for you, but I do wish you would have found us "before".
Hope to hear from you again.
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PetFinatic
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Tuesday,
July 17, 2001 - 10:46 am
Kick, I don't think you're being mean at all, don't
worry. You are giving me great advice (and so is the whole board
here, yay!). I am sorry that I started this adventure without
finding you guys first as well. But...what's done is done and
all my energy right now is focused on keeping these fishies healthy
and happy. Here is where we're at right now:
I haven't done a water change yet because I was worried about
having to add all the proper additives while I have that Ich medicine
in there. The additives I am using are 1) Cycle (the benificial
bacteria and trace element liquid)
and 2) StressCoat (the water conditioner and fin repair
liquid).
Should I do a partial water change right now and add these additives?
How much water should I take out?
I haven't cleaned the gravel yet because it's perfectly
clean...so...leave it alone for the time being?
I do have the Eclise BioWheel system which says it's supposed
to cycle the tank a lot quicker than normal plus I'm using the
Cycle additive. With that info, how long should it take my tank
to cycle?
Luckily, at this point, my fish seem good. I may not have a trained
eye like you guys, but they are all swimming, eating and socializing.
Thank you again for all your patience with me and my tank. I feel
with the proper attention we can get it under control.
-Tina (PetFinatic)
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Kick
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Wednesday,
July 18, 2001 - 01:43 am
There is one big plus, Tina. The Eclipse biowheel. There is none
better in my opinion. But I would not use the cycle. To me, this
is basically a money making product...just can't see how live
bacteria (that need air and nutrition to survive) make it
in those bottles until someone decides to buy them.
Don't be in a hurry at this point to change your water. Let's
see what your perimeters are from the test kit that you purchased
today. Then we can go from there on your next step. Be waiting to
hear from you.
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PetFinatic
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Wednesday,
July 18, 2001 - 02:22 am
Hello! I went to the LPS and had my water tested...it was fine except
for the ammonia level (of course). It was off the scale.
The guy who helped me had me purchase "Ammonia Clear Tank Buddies".
He also told me to do a 25% water change. So I did that and also
cleaned the gravel a bit. the fish seem happier... let's see
what happens.
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Kick
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Wednesday,
July 18, 2001 - 10:12 am
I am not fond of adding chemicals to the tank, but in your situation,
I suspect you really needed to do something. You will need to keep
checking the ammonia frequently so I hope you did purchase a test
kit to keep from running back and forth to the LPS. Remember to
ask us first. Did the tank buddies now cloud up your water and make
a mess? These are not one of my favorite products
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PetFinatic
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Wednesday,
July 18, 2001 - 10:27 am
The "Tank Buddies" didn't make it cloudy at all luckily.
I purchased my testing kit over the internet so I'm waiting
for it to come. The man at the pet shop said to come back in a week
for another water test, but I will be back to them sooner than that.
What should be my next step? No more water changes for a while,
even with the Ich?
-Tina
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Kick
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Wednesday,
July 18, 2001 - 12:20 pm
Okay, lets just relax for a little bit. You have done the water
change with the buddies treatment I assume, so wait no more than
2 days and have your water tested again (or test yourself if
your kit comes). Let me know the results and I will suggest
how to proceed. Let's do nothing more until you get the bacteria
going good to take care of the ammonia.
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PetFinatic
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Wednesday,
July 18, 2001 - 01:16 pm
Thanks Kick. I will relax and cross my fingers for good luck!
-Tina
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Barb
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Friday,
July 20, 2001 - 06:04 pm
Hi everyone! It’s Barb from Aquamaniacs!! Do I still need to introduce
myself when I post here??
I’m here on behalf of the African Dwarf Frog (ADF)! There
are just a few comments that I’d like to make…
*Don’t worry about your ADF eating the other fish… that’s a
concern attached to their larger “cousins”, the African Clawed frogs.
On the contrary, you need to be aware that your fish may eat the
ADF. While things certainly seem fine now, given time, that pictus
cat will probably get the ADF and I don't know that the spotted
cat can be trusted either.
*ADFs should not live in a brackish environment and they should
have no salt (but might tolerate just a little) in their
water.
*Malachite Green in RidIch+ is toxic to ADFs, so don’t move
on to that med if you need to use a different one. Thanks for letting
me know here that ADFs do tolerate Maracide.
*ADFs are truly awesome creatures to keep Tina, so I hope that
you find a way to do so!! For more info on ADFs check out allaboutfrogs
site or you can always visit my
aquatic frog forum, where ADFs rule!
Barb
PS. How does one add images to the board? HTML doesn't seem
to work.
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joycedonley
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Saturday,
July 21, 2001 - 08:16 am
Thanks for the information Barb. I think someone said I knew about
frogs...I know zip about them. I have never kept them and have no
plans too. Good luck with your ADF's.
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Kick
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Saturday,
July 21, 2001 - 11:45 am
Oh Joyce, it was probably me......sorry. But looks like Barb came
to the rescue to help Tina with the frog. Thanks Barb.
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PetFinatic
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Saturday,
July 21, 2001 - 01:28 pm
Barb,
Thanks for all that info! I am going to check out those website
links you recommended. I really hope the cats don't get my little
ADF, because he is about as cute as can be!!!! He has a little pointy
nose that is always peeking out from wherever he is hiding. Actually,
I don't know if "he" is a "he". How can you
tell their sex?
I love the way they swim, and when they stretch out and float around
the top. He has such personality. And he really guards his shrimp
pellets. "Don't even try to mess with me!" is what he
says to those big fish. And they know he means business...
Thanks again!!
-Tina
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Barb
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Saturday,
July 21, 2001 - 02:48 pm
Any time Tina! Please ask away as I'm glad to spread the word
about these incredibly fun creatures! ADFs do require a lot of space
to swim, unlike what allaboutfrogs taught me and the world, but
otherwise there is a lot of good info there. I'll share some
pics of my frogs if someone can guide me as to where to put them
on the board.
How to sex ADFs? Well...
*Females are generally larger than males by quite a lot and
they are often "bumpier"... I don't know about you Kick,
but the large and bumpy part really depresses this ole gal!
*Females are supposed to have a "stub" where a tail
might be.
*Males have a white bump in the "armpit" of the front
legs (hands), though some girls may have white patches there
too, but they never get pronounced and "bumpy". This white
bump in the males might not be so obvious until "breeding season"
and that comes whenever it comes.
*The best evidence of who's who, is when you find one (the
dude) riding piggyback style on top of the other (a girl...
hopefully! ), as they are mating. This is called amplexsus and
they will ride around for hours like this. Finally, they start to
swim in loops and this is when the male, who has his arms wrapped
around her, starts to squeeze the eggs out of her and fertilizes
them. Wow! What a show!!
Barb
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PetFinatic
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Monday,
July 23, 2001 - 11:22 am
Barb,
I checked out those sites you recommened and they are great! I am
even more excited for my frog now! When my tank fully cycles, and
Kick gives me the go-ahead, the first fish I want to get is another
frog so my current one has a buddy. By the way, I named him "Flibber-me-jibbet".
I'm also glad to know they can live long lives if taken care
of properly, which I intend to do.
Thanks again Barb!
-Tina
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Barb
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Thursday,
July 26, 2001 - 01:42 am
That's definitely my answer when someone asks me what my favorite
fish is... the ADF of course! Then I have to say, "Well, ok,
it's the betta then."
Glad you are lovin' your froggie!
Barb
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