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transcript

  • [20:03 20/02/2004] <@craig> Good evening everyone! Welcome to this weeks installment of Live! Chat.
  • [20:04 20/02/2004] <@craig> Tonight we have a special guest who is one of our very own from Badman's, Heather!
  • [20:04 20/02/2004] <@craig> Her presentation will be on live rock in reef tanks.
  • [20:05 20/02/2004] <@craig> Please hold your questions until after her presentation is complete.
  • [20:05 20/02/2004] <@craig> At that time if you wish to ask a question, please /query craig I have a question
  • [20:05 20/02/2004] <@craig> Questions will be taken in the order received.
  • [20:06 20/02/2004] <@craig> Heather, thank you for being here this evening. Please begin when ever you are ready.
  • [20:06 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Live rock, living rock, reef rock - whatever you call it, it's not really alive at all, at least not the rock.
  • [20:07 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Live rock is basically coral skeletons and calcium carbonate rock that has fallen off of the reef.
  • [20:07 20/02/2004] <+Heather> It is illegal to take directly off of the reef and rock should always be taken off the ocean floor by collectors with the proper licenses and permits.
  • [20:07 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Most live rock comes from the Pacific Ocean.
  • [20:07 20/02/2004] <+Heather> There are several types of pacific live rock such as Fiji, Tonga, Marshall Island, etc - mainly named after the islands they are collected from.
  • [20:08 20/02/2004] <+Heather> These rocks each have their own individual characteristics that make them special.
  • [20:08 20/02/2004] <+Heather> As expected some will cost more than others depending on location, life on the rock and of course size and shape.
  • [20:09 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Concern has been raised regarding the health of our reef systems when collecting live rock.
  • [20:09 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I really should mention collection in general.
  • [20:09 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Over 80% of the live coral, 95% of the live rock and 50% of the dead coral in international trade is imported into the U.S. each year, and the global trade in corals is increasing at a rate of 10-20% per year.
  • [20:10 20/02/2004] <+Heather> In 1997, over half a million corals and 1,322,760 pounds of live rock were imported into the U.S.
  • [20:10 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Over one million and that was over 10 years ago.
  • [20:10 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Thankfully we now have the option of aquacultured live rock.
  • [20:10 20/02/2004] <+Heather> This rock comes from the Gulf of Mexico and the Florida Keys.
  • [20:11 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Millions of pounds of limestone rock are dumped into leased federal areas in the sea and left there for years to acquire corals, algae and animals to inhabit the rocks and are then sold to aquarists.
  • [20:11 20/02/2004] <+Heather> These rocks are usually less expensive than pacific rock, contain quite a bit more life and obviously protect the reef systems.
  • [20:12 20/02/2004] <+Heather> So live rock provides housing, food and so much more in our oceans, but what makes it so special in our aquariums?
  • [20:12 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Filtration!
  • [20:13 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Millions of beneficial bacteria introduce themselves into our systems with the addition of live rock, and when the correct
  • [20:13 20/02/2004] <+Heather> amount is used; live rock can become the only filtration system in the tank
  • [20:13 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Sometimes live rock provides us with free plants and animals too.
  • [20:14 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Live rock can hold dormant macroalgae for a long time and suddenly one day you notice a nice clump of caulerpa growing that you didn't purchase.
  • [20:14 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Hitchhiker animals and corals are common on fresh live rock and you would be amazed at what can survive while your tank is maturing.
  • [20:14 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Maybe you've heard of the term's "ccured and un-cured"d live rock.
  • [20:14 20/02/2004] <+Heather> These two words can be confusing, and I don't like them anyway.
  • [20:15 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Cured rock is rock taken from the ocean, kept in a holding tank, cared for by scrubbing the dead and dying organisms off, watching the ammonia levels and when nothing else is dead and the water levels are back to showing no ammonia, then the rock is considered cured.
  • [20:15 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Life is found on this rock but little of it, it's hard to survive high ammonia levels.
  • [20:15 20/02/2004] <+Heather> You're supposed to be able to put cured rock straight into your tank but that's relative.
  • [20:15 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Maybe coming right home from your LFS, but coming from and on-line vendor, well, how long has that live rock been out of the water?
  • [20:16 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Next Day Air is still too many hours for me to feel safe enough to plop some rock into my tank with my prized fish and corals.
  • [20:16 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Having your own holding tank is a good idea; I'll get back to that in a minute.
  • [20:16 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Uncured rock is rock straight from the ocean to your door.
  • [20:16 20/02/2004] <+Heather> How valid this statement is depends on your vendor I suppose.
  • [20:16 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I'd suggest researching greatly and speaking to others who've bought uncured rock before you buy to find the best deal.
  • [20:16 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Uncured rock does have more life than cured rock; the only drawback is you will have to cure this rock yourself.
  • [20:17 20/02/2004] <+Heather> One advantage is that you control the process and might be able to save much of the life on the rock by water changes, running a skimmer and removing the dead or dying things.
  • [20:17 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Starting a new tank with uncured rock is a great idea, it saves you the extra holding tanks used to cure the rock and gives your tank established bacteria and a head start on algal blooms.
  • [20:17 20/02/2004] <+Heather> It's a good idea to hold or "ccure"d any live rock you receive for your already established tank.
  • [20:18 20/02/2004] <+Heather> This way you will avoid any ammonia released into your aquarium and you can watch for decay and also watch for any unwanted critters that may appear.
  • [20:18 20/02/2004] <+Heather> There are a few ways to cure live rock but I'll keep it short and give yø¹Žxhe way I'll be curing my rock for my new 37gal reef tank.
  • [20:19 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I'm getting anywhere from 40-70lbs of aquacultured gulf rock, since it's a heavy dense rock, I'll only need about 1 pound per gallon in lieu of 2 pounds per gallon for carribean rock.
  • [20:19 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Since it's a new tank, I won't have to worry too much about the ammonia levels but I will be running the tank just as if it were already established meaning skimmer running, lights running and water changes when needed.
  • [20:20 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I'll check daily for anything looking like it is dying or needing to be removed and I will most likely start the tank on a calcium supplement but that is just a personal preference.
  • [20:20 20/02/2004] <+Heather> New tanks are far easier to work with live rock and the aquarist can fine tune their "ccuring"d methods to their liking.
  • [20:21 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Set up your own live rock tank one day, a 5 gallon starter kit modified with a screw in compact fluorescent bulb would be perfect for about 10 pounds of whatever type of rock you choose.
  • [20:22 20/02/2004] <+Heather> You might only have a tank full of rock, but wait and watch, you'll see, you'll see amphipods, copepods, starfish, snails, anemones, crabs, worms, plants and even a coral or two!
  • [20:23 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Thanks for listening everyone! :)
  • [20:23 20/02/2004] <@craig> Great job Heather!
  • [20:23 20/02/2004] <@craig> Does anyone have a question for Heather?
  • [20:24 20/02/2004] <@craig> Go ahead Nigel.
  • [20:25 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> do you know of any european importers?
  • [20:25 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> btw - informative talk heather - thanks
  • [20:26 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Nigel, I've never looked into it, sorry, but I'm taking a guess at walt smith international
  • [20:27 20/02/2004] <@craig> Mark, go ahead.
  • [20:27 20/02/2004] <+Mark> Fantastic chat, Heather - well researched! I'm wondering what comparisons could be made between marine and freshwater tanks in terms of cost and maintainance?
  • [20:28 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Alright Mark give me just a second
  • [20:28 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Let's compare a 29gallon tank
  • [20:30 20/02/2004] <+Heather> freshwater kit comes with tank/hood/lights/filter/heater for about $80.00 here all you need is a few extras and fish so we will round it off to $100.00 to get started
  • [20:31 20/02/2004] <+Heather> take that kit add $80.00 for a cheap skimmer, $180.00 for a nice light, and you see where it gets quite a bit more
  • [20:32 20/02/2004] <+Noname> Really sorry if you mentioned this, I was sort of in and out. I was wondering if it would be wise keeping the animals that "come" with live rock in with whatever you plan of housing.
  • [20:32 20/02/2004] <+Heather> but that gets tricky on what KIND of tank you want
  • [20:33 20/02/2004] <+Heather> absolutely its ok to keep whatever you find as long as they will be compatible in the long run with your future purchases
  • [20:34 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> ok. this has to do with the gulf live rock
  • [20:34 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> is it commonly found in the lfses or do yo have to special order it
  • [20:34 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> i know i've seen the fuji and such, but never noticed a gulf
  • [20:35 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I think it is more of a matter of personal preference for the lfs, as I have 3 here and one chooses to carry gulf rock, I've found however
  • [20:35 20/02/2004] <+Heather> gulf rock is at it's best if it can come straight out of the ocean and not sit in the lfs holding tanks
  • [20:36 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> ahh, so online?
  • [20:36 20/02/2004] <+Heather> maybe it's better to oder online, you get more out of the deal
  • [20:36 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> whats a good place for that?
  • [20:37 20/02/2004] <@craig> Nigel. You had another question?
  • [20:37 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> 2 actually :-D
  • [20:38 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> any comebacks if o/l order is bad?
  • [20:38 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> and... are any reefs in the world flourishing - and can they be legitimately acquired - or their children at least?
  • [20:38 20/02/2004] <+Heather> well, not really, live rock is normally shipped dry to you and might come a little smelly
  • [20:39 20/02/2004] <+Heather> so it's hard to tell if the rock is bad or not, that's where the curing part comes in
  • [20:39 20/02/2004] <+Heather> that's essential
  • [20:39 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> so o/l may be risky?
  • [20:40 20/02/2004] <+Heather> of course it's always a gamble, but I've found there are times in the season that are better for ordering and there are other message boards that are great to hear about such live rock vendors and how they rate
  • [20:40 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> so go for current user experience?
  • [20:41 20/02/2004] <+Heather> www.reefcentral.com has a vendor section that has helped me greatly
  • [20:41 20/02/2004] <@craig> Once again, Heather, thank you for being here.
  • [20:41 20/02/2004] <@craig> At this time I am going to open the floor for general discussion.
  • [20:41 20/02/2004] <russ> Great presentation Heather :-) When someone is adding another piece of live rock to an established tank, is there a preferred placement? Considering that the established rock is utilizing all available light.
  • [20:41 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Nigel, that's what I will do on my next order and if my vendor isn't fairing so well I may change vendors :)
  • [20:41 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> ;-D
  • [20:42 20/02/2004] * Mark rushes out and buys a marine aquarium!
  • [20:42 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> many thanks heather - i learned a lot today :-D
  • [20:42 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Thanks everyone :)
  • [20:42 20/02/2004] <Mark> Three Hoots!
  • [20:42 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> :-D
  • [20:43 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> heahter that was awesome :-D
  • [20:43 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Russ, if there is I don't know about it, placement is up to the aquarist and the tank I suppose
  • [20:44 20/02/2004] <russ> Thanks, and again great presentation and a fun one at that! :-)
  • [20:45 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Y'all are great :)
  • [20:45 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> nope - you is - you did it :-D
  • [20:46 20/02/2004] <samantha> Awesome job Heather :D
  • [20:46 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> nigel got it..
  • [20:46 20/02/2004] <+Heather> well hey there Cindy :)
  • [20:46 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> cindy, if you look at teh bottom of the blue box you'll see a tab with my name on it. if you click there you can read what happened
  • [20:47 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> ....butthe streaker never showed :-(
  • [20:47 20/02/2004] * @craig thwaps Nigel
  • [20:47 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> :-D
  • [20:47 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I should do a presentation on how long a person can stand a mantis shrimp tapping and tapping in their live rock tank
  • [20:48 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> hehehehehe - GUMBO!
  • [20:48 20/02/2004] <+Heather> not my pet ghengis prawn!
  • [20:48 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> :-D
  • [20:48 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> lol
  • [20:49 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> Heather: is there anywhere 'wild' reef cab be bought legit?
  • [20:50 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> or rather 'flourishing' reef
  • [20:51 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I'm not real sure what you mean
  • [20:51 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> also - how small a colony can survive and grow
  • [20:52 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> are any woild reefs flourishing, or are they all in decline?
  • [20:52 20/02/2004] <@craig> Nigel, "wild" reef rock is collected under international permits, to collect it without those permits is a violation of international laws.
  • [20:52 20/02/2004] <+Heather> a colony of a certain coral species?
  • [20:53 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> what size 'seed' is needed?
  • [20:53 20/02/2004] <@craig> That being said, there is reef rock collected that is not of the aqua-cultured variety.
  • [20:54 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I'm not certain if 'all' reefs are in decline but I can't see them all flourishing with what we put into the water and air
  • [20:54 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> last thing i want to do is damage stocks - but, i'd like to perpetuate rarer species
  • [20:55 20/02/2004] <@craig> Then set up a reef tank with aquacultured rock, research sources and find someone who has them already. ;-)
  • [20:55 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> that's the easy bit :-D
  • [20:56 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> ok - tank 1st - Heather, what size tank do you recommend to start with for reefs?
  • [20:56 20/02/2004] <+Heather> there are several coral species being propagated and raised in tanks now that don't have to come out of the ocean (is that what you meant_
  • [20:57 20/02/2004] <+Heather> Nigel the biggest you can afford, that said, a 50-75gal
  • [20:57 20/02/2004] <+Heather> going back a little...
  • [20:58 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> 75 gal - that's heavy - what ancilleries are required? (pumps, lights etc.)
  • [20:59 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> looks like i'm gonna get familar with tank building - glass bondig etc :-D
  • [20:59 20/02/2004] <+Heather> you'd need a nice sized protein skimmer, some still use a canister filter for mechanical filtration (I won't), most likely metal halide lights or very high output lights
  • [20:59 20/02/2004] <@Jessica> lol
  • [21:00 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> what light range - uv, ir?
  • [21:00 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> what depth?
  • [21:01 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I'd go with three 400watt metal halide bulbs and supplements actinic bulbs either vho or power compact
  • [21:01 20/02/2004] <+Heather> but it's your preference and up to what you want to keep in this tank
  • [21:01 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I like a lot of light
  • [21:02 20/02/2004] <@craig> Anything beyond leathers and a few softies do too. ;-)
  • [21:02 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> heather - i may well have questions at a later date - do you have a public contact address?
  • [21:03 20/02/2004] <+Heather> HeatherMSanders1@aol.com - just remember you're talking to a beginner:)
  • [21:03 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> hehehehe - as opposes to the complete novice here :-D
  • [21:03 20/02/2004] <+Heather> but I'd be glad to share what I've learned with you!
  • [21:03 20/02/2004] <@craig> Nigel, another option is to get yourself over to Badman's and register for the board. There is a saltwater forum there.
  • [21:04 20/02/2004] <russ> Its fun!
  • [21:04 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> coral suits ny view of timescales :-D
  • [21:04 20/02/2004] <+Heather> I tell you just watching the live rock and what comes out of it is so amazing
  • [21:05 20/02/2004] <russ> Heather, was that thee 400 watt MHs you recommended for a 75 gal?
  • [21:05 20/02/2004] <russ> 'three'
  • [21:05 20/02/2004] <+Heather> the whole process of the tank maturing is what I like to watch and record
  • [21:05 20/02/2004] <+Heather> yep, watch out for that melting center brace
  • [21:06 20/02/2004] * @Nigel getting annoyingly hooked on the idea
  • [21:06 20/02/2004] <russ> thats a lot of heat going into that tank
  • [21:06 20/02/2004] <@craig> Wouldn't a suitable gap mitigate that though?
  • [21:06 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> hmmm - so the key is ir? or does ir stimulate the food?
  • [21:07 20/02/2004] <+Heather> no
  • [21:07 20/02/2004] <@craig> Nigel, you want visible light.
  • [21:07 20/02/2004] <russ> Not necessarly, because corals and other inverts that are not used to that much can 'burn
  • [21:07 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> visible promotes growth iirc?
  • [21:07 20/02/2004] <+Heather> that's why I put that little disclaimer out there after the fact
  • [21:08 20/02/2004] <@craig> Right. Nigel.
  • [21:08 20/02/2004] <+Heather> you wouldnt want that much light on some mushrooms
  • [21:08 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> could be fun to experiment and see
  • [21:08 20/02/2004] <@craig> Well.. Actually, it promotes photosynthesis in the animals that use that mechanism.
  • [21:08 20/02/2004] <russ> research of the critter, etc. is important to find out where they actually reside in terms of depth.. Sun-backed shallower water or 100-200 feet down
  • [21:08 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> is coral photosynthetic?
  • [21:08 20/02/2004] <russ> ?
  • [21:08 20/02/2004] <@craig> Some are, yes.
  • [21:09 20/02/2004] <+Heather> some are some are not
  • [21:09 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> which ones are not?
  • [21:09 20/02/2004] <@craig> Research my friend. :-D
  • [21:09 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> hehehehe
  • [21:09 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> google up :-D
  • [21:09 20/02/2004] <russ> its a fragile symbiotic relationship between the coral and the a;gae
  • [21:10 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> algae is photosythetic - hmmm - what abt red algae?
  • [21:10 20/02/2004] <@craig> nano-reef.com, reefcentral.com and garf.org are good places to start.
  • [21:10 20/02/2004] <russ> those are very good :-)
  • [21:10 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> nano-reef had me envious a while back :-D
  • [21:10 20/02/2004] <+Heather> reefs.org don't forget the red headed stepchild of reefcentral
  • [21:12 20/02/2004] <@Nigel> thanks heather - just off to do some 'research' :-D
  • [21:12 20/02/2004] <+Heather> you're welcome
  • [21:13 20/02/2004] <russ> I've got to get my salt legs back in balance. I really like talking about marine......sometimes..;-)
  • [21:14 20/02/2004] <+Heather> now if Nigel gets his reef tank up before mine I'm gonna have a hissy fit
  • [21:14 20/02/2004] <russ> lol
  • [21:14 20/02/2004] <+Heather> :D
  • [21:14 20/02/2004] <@craig> He needs to get his goldfish a bigger home first!
  • [21:14 20/02/2004] <russ> why not just have a fishy fit?
  • [21:14 20/02/2004] <Beatles_Addict> Heather, sorry I missed your presentation. I'm sure it was great. :)
  • [21:14 20/02/2004] <russ> ah, cucumbers!
  • [21:14 20/02/2004] <+Heather> thanks JP, it's ok :)
  • [21:15 20/02/2004] <@craig> I'll have the transcript posted some time tomorrow.
  • [21:15 20/02/2004] <+Heather> you think we are done?
  • [21:15 20/02/2004] <Beatles_Addict> You know me, I forgot of course. :/

 

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