- [6:01:13 PM:] <craig> Get settled in folks, we'll get started
- [6:02:19 PM:] <craig> Good evening everyone!
- [6:02:30 PM:] <craig> Welcome to Live! Fish Chat!
- [6:02:52 PM:] <craig> Jessica will be speaking for us tonight.
- [6:03:03 PM:] <Jessica> lol.. one way of putting it :-D
- [6:03:40 PM:] <Jessica> OK, tonight, since we have a shortage
of speakers and do to some other issues, I've been called in last
minute, so please, excuse the madness...
- [6:03:57 PM:] <Jessica> what i think i'll ramble about is
the collector's spirit and tank stocking/fish keeping
- [6:04:32 PM:] <Jessica> I'm a collector. It shows up in many
aspects of my life
- [6:04:57 PM:] <Jessica> I've collected, books, art supplies,
hermit crabs, pictures, fish and more.
- [6:05:07 PM:] <Jessica> it's in my nature, and I'll bet it
is in yours as well
- [6:05:27 PM:] <Jessica> Collecting is not bad. It allows us
to preserve parts of the past.
- [6:05:48 PM:] <Jessica> in the fish biz, sometimes it allows
us to help out fish that really do need our help
- [6:06:03 PM:] <Jessica> sometimes, it gets out of hand. othertimes
- [6:06:12 PM:] <Jessica> when is your fish collecting out of
- [6:06:33 PM:] <Jessica> when you have more tanks than YOU
can maintain, and more fish in them than you can give a good life.
- [6:07:14 PM:] <Jessica> Stocking is a delicate process. and
If you have ever looked in Craig, Sully, or my tanks in the past,
you'll see that you can get away with alot.
- [6:07:46 PM:] <Jessica> However, if you try to get away with
a lot, you are living on the edge of a river, one which can flood
- [6:08:00 PM:] <Jessica> it is a risk you choose to take, and
you can usually prevent all the flooding.
- [6:08:08 PM:] <Jessica> but not always... so beware.
- [6:08:32 PM:] <Jessica> on the other hand, you can choose
to stock 'sensibly' and try to resist the collector's spirit or vent
- [6:09:08 PM:] <Jessica> regardless, you have to find out where
enough is enough.... if you go beyond that, you are doing your fish
a disservice, no matter how much you think you may be giving them
a better life.
- [6:09:52 PM:] <Jessica> I'm likely preaching to the choir
here, but sometimes things need to be said, and it never hurts to
have a reminder that those "recommended newbie stocking levels"
aren't always a bad thing.
- [6:10:33 PM:] <Jessica> I've had a total of 35+ species of
loach run through my life. This has happened within the last 16 months
- [6:10:41 PM:] <Jessica> wait a second, did i just say that?
- [6:11:00 PM:] <Jessica> my dad has a lovely thing he has said
to me about this topic...
- [6:11:12 PM:] <Jessica> do you want to burn through the hobby
in 10 years, or have it last a lifetime?
- [6:11:41 PM:] <Jessica> yeah, there's fish I want.. heck,
i'd love to have my rivertank back, and those balteatas are fish to
- [6:12:24 PM:] <Jessica> but I had to draw the line, and they
were outside the line.... in 10 years, or 20, i'll go back, set up
my rivertank and I"ll hunt those fish down... I'm sure they'll
be around somewhere
- [6:13:17 PM:] <Jessica> I'm down to 7 species of loach. 3
of them are khuli
- [6:13:41 PM:] <Jessica> now, for some good things that have
come about because of this.
- [6:13:59 PM:] <Jessica> i've heard many times mentioned on
loaches OnLine, how botias really prefer species tanks.
- [6:14:26 PM:] <Jessica> at one time i had 5 or 6 botias in
the 125.. i saw fish all the time, but whenever i moved things around,
the clowns got mad at me
- [6:14:33 PM:] <Jessica> they'd hold a grudge for weeks!
- [6:14:55 PM:] <Jessica> i had my fish handfeeding, but if
I rearanged the tank, the clowns literally would not reappear to eat
out my hand for 3 weeks!
- [6:15:17 PM:] <Jessica> i took the tank apart this weekend
for the second time in 2-3 weeks
- [6:15:28 PM:] <Jessica> i ended up with a new decor
- [6:15:48 PM:] <Jessica> the only fish i had left in there
were the pleco assortment (including otos), the danios, and the clown
- [6:16:04 PM:] <Jessica> within 2 days, they were out all morning.
the 3rd day they danced for me!
- [6:16:26 PM:] <Jessica> 4 days afterwards.. i have not hand
fed these loaches in at least 6-8 months
- [6:16:32 PM:] <Jessica> they ate out of my fingers
- [6:16:36 PM:] <Jessica> 4 days...
- [6:16:41 PM:] <Jessica> they LOVE having the tank to themselves
- [6:17:04 PM:] <Jessica> the danios are stupid, but skittish,
they know they can trust them to be a reliable notice of danger
- [6:17:17 PM:] <Jessica> it's a beautiful tank... i love it
- [6:17:33 PM:] <Jessica> i don't want to mess with it, because
I know they are happy...
- [6:18:53 PM:] <Jessica> I will have to deal with the collector's
spirit, made worse by the amount of credit my dad accumulates from
his guppy turnovers. (he doesn't want to buy fish with it, lol)...
but i think, for me, I've found my "good" zone to be in
less. More of each species.. i love schoolers, but...
- [6:19:05 PM:] <Jessica> more is not always better. especially
when more means variety.
- [6:19:44 PM:] <Jessica> if you have more, this is not an attack,
and your levels of maintenance are likely higher than mine, but once
you find your level, stick with it, life is good :-D
- [6:20:14 PM:] <Jessica> and hopefully that was sensible enough...
thank you :-)
- [6:20:31 PM:] <craig> Jess, thanks. :-D
- [6:20:59 PM:] <craig> Since this is another informal chat..
Lets open the floor. :-D
- [6:21:10 PM:] <Erin> Thank you Jessica.
- [6:21:19 PM:] <Jessica> you're welcome :-)
- [6:22:20 PM:] <Erin> Do you think most people have to learn
the level they are comfortable with by first figuring out what is
- [6:22:35 PM:] <Jessica> erin, i imagine that is very likely
- [6:22:59 PM:] <Jessica> as i mentioned in an old thread, you
also dont get a chance to try out fish unless you kinda go overboard...
- [6:23:24 PM:] <Jessica> and sometimes... it's nice knowing
you picked the best out of a group...
- [6:23:30 PM:] <craig> And at times, we get too far ahead of
where we should be and kill what we want..
- [6:23:37 PM:] <Jessica> that too
- [6:23:49 PM:] <craig> Which is not entirely a bad thing..
- [6:23:50 PM:] <Jessica> i've killed a couple starlight bristlenoses
I wish i still had...
- [6:24:46 PM:] <Jessica> craig.. expound ;-)
- [6:24:48 PM:] <Erin> Jessica, I know you have mentioned this
in a thread and probably tonight but which tanks are still standing?
- [6:24:58 PM:] <Jessica> 125, 55, and 10
- [6:25:19 PM:] <Erin> so, you did away with mainly smaller
- [6:25:40 PM:] <craig> Its like this, I had this WILD thing
for chenis, the LFS got them, I killed all but two..
- [6:26:06 PM:] <craig> I took a break, sat back and took care
of what I had..
- [6:26:12 PM:] <Jessica> yeah, honestly most fish prefer more
space to start with, and i was streamlining so drastically, i didn't
think i could do without my sids or khulis... which i can't..
- [6:26:30 PM:] <craig> Did that mean I lost that urge to collect?
- [6:26:50 PM:] <Jessica> thank you craig... but, you almost
abandoned what you had, that was not good... taking care of what you
have is great, but enjoying them is also really good ;-)
- [6:26:57 PM:] <Karen> what was the chat about tonight?
- [6:27:25 PM:] <Jessica> randomness that i've come to the conclusion
about lately, on why i don't want to be a collector, but a fish keeper...
- [6:27:30 PM:] <craig> Erm, well Jess, you know full well you
had a part of rekindling my efforts.
- [6:27:54 PM:] <Jessica> yeah, and i'm very glad for that
- [6:27:59 PM:] <Karen> Thanks, I was out with my horse, so
I had to miss the first
- [6:28:05 PM:] <Jessica> no worries :-)
- [6:28:22 PM:] <Erin> Jessica's starting a concientious fishkeeping
revolution on the board. (smile)
- [6:28:23 PM:] <Jessica> it's nice not forgetting half of what
you have :-D
- [6:28:31 PM:] <Jessica> lol erin, i'd love that :-D
- [6:28:49 PM:] <Erin> keep talking it'll happen
- [6:28:55 PM:] <Karen> that would bprobably be good for me
- [6:29:02 PM:] <Jessica> yeah, true
- [6:29:05 PM:] <craig> And no, I never abandoned them, I kept
them alive and gave them a home better than a fish store could have,
but I did not give them all the attention I could have..
- [6:29:09 PM:] <Erin> less is more
- [6:29:13 PM:] <Jessica> indeed
- [6:29:45 PM:] <Erin> ...unless its a 180 gallon reef tank
- [6:29:55 PM:] <Erin> Erin runs and hides
- [6:29:58 PM:] <Jessica> i still have numbers which would impress,
but when you really think about it.. my fish thrive in numbers of
their own kin.. better not to have a varied assortment, but conglomerate
- [6:29:59 PM:] <Jessica> LOL
- [6:30:03 PM:] <craig> Erin, come here and help me. :-D
- [6:30:47 PM:] <Erin> with what Craig?
- [6:30:59 PM:] <craig> When it really comes down to it, there
is not a one of us that doesn't have the collector gene..
- [6:31:07 PM:] <craig> Its how we deal with it..
- [6:31:13 PM:] * Jessica nods
- [6:31:13 PM:] <craig> Space or money. :-D
- [6:31:17 PM:] <Jessica> lol
- [6:31:20 PM:] <Jessica> or both
- [6:31:55 PM:] <Erin> of course we have the collector gene...we're
putting fish in a box.
- [6:33:58 PM:] <Erin> Karen, a revolution starts with one.
What do you have?
- [6:34:01 PM:] <craig> Lets get back to the collector thing...
- [6:34:41 PM:] <craig> I will have to admit to being one of
them, plecos, bad thing.. I haven't found one I don't like..
- [6:34:50 PM:] <Erin> lol
- [6:35:17 PM:] <craig> And now I have 3 little bristlenoses
that are SOOOOOO cute..
- [6:35:33 PM:] <Geoff> Plecos is a bad one, considering the
- [6:35:55 PM:] <Jessica> plecos are a weakness here too, lol
- [6:35:58 PM:] <craig> However, its watching them, its not
just about collecting them..
- [6:36:17 PM:] <craig> If they could not be where they are,
they wouldn't be.
- [6:36:56 PM:] <craig> We all know the risks, at times we push
them, but in the end, we do learn and do know what we can do.
- [6:37:14 PM:] <Karen> Erin, what do you mean "what do
you have"? I'm sorry, I'm really tired, I'm sorda zoning off.
- [6:37:42 PM:] <Erin> I was asking what kind of fish you are
- [6:37:54 PM:] <Jessica> if you learn what you can do, and
still go beyond, that is irresponsible, though. :-)
- [6:38:25 PM:] <craig> It does happen tho.. Even with people
that do care..
- [6:38:30 PM:] <Jessica> of course
- [6:38:43 PM:] * Jessica raises hand ;-)
- [6:38:54 PM:] <craig> In the end, its nothing to beat ones
self up about, its some thing learn from.
- [6:39:01 PM:] <Jessica> 'xactly
- [6:39:18 PM:] * craig was a serial clown loach and cheni killer
- [6:39:19 PM:] <Jessica> as long as you try to fix the problem
- [6:40:26 PM:] <Erin> I'm pretty comfortable with my tanks.
I have not found myself coveting fish in a long time.
- [6:40:41 PM:] <Karen> I've got BB's, mollies, guppies, platys,
wild fish, and I was thinking about cichlids and gouramis.
- [6:40:58 PM:] <craig> Erin, care to visit here? :-)
- [6:41:12 PM:] <Erin> and do what? covet?
- [6:43:16 PM:] <Jessica> actually erin's policy is best...
don't look. if you can't avoid the newest treasure, and cna't leave
it behind, don't look in the tanks at the store
- [6:43:46 PM:] <Jessica> or, even if you have a goal, one type
of fish, that you want more than all others, and can keep focused
on that one, ignoring all else...
- [6:43:51 PM:] <Jessica> many methods might work
- [6:44:02 PM:] <Erin> I look all the time. I just don't want
more fish. It's more fun to watch a less crowded tank.
- [6:44:20 PM:] <Erin> I'd kind of like to get rid of some.
- [6:44:39 PM:] <Jessica> erin, you're lucky in that.. not all
- [6:45:05 PM:] <JP> I knew I liked you, Erin.
- [6:45:18 PM:] <Erin> actually, now that I'm thinking about
it...I'd like to get rid of some and replace them with something else.