jay

transcript

  • [20:04 02/04/2004] <@craig> Welcome to tonight's installment of Live! Fishchat, our guest speaker this evening is one of our very own Badmans members, Chris J.
  • [20:04 02/04/2004] <@craig> His topic tonight will be "Natural Filtration".
  • [20:05 02/04/2004] <@craig> As is usual, please hold your questions until after the presentation.
  • [20:05 02/04/2004] <@craig> Chris, when ever you are ready. :-)
  • [20:05 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Thanks. Ok, Natural Filtration, NF for short is basically self-explanatory.
  • [20:06 02/04/2004] <+Chris> It means that the aquarium uses a layered substrate, tons of plants and other stuff.
  • [20:06 02/04/2004] <+Chris> We'll begin with the substrate.
  • [20:06 02/04/2004] <+Chris> It consists of 3-4 layers.
  • [20:07 02/04/2004] <+Chris> This whole bed will be about 2-3 inches pending on the substrates used.
  • [20:08 02/04/2004] <+Chris> The first layer will be consisting of peat, soil, or some kind of medium that will hold water and nutrients well.
  • [20:09 02/04/2004] <+Chris> In this bottom layer, if you want to further your plant growth, you could add a substrate heater first then teh soil
  • [20:10 02/04/2004] <+Chris> This layer will be at least 3/4" to 1" deep pending on the size of the aquarium and its bottom.
  • [20:11 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Then the middle layer will consist of thoroughly washed sand. This is what will hold in the soil from the water column and hold in the plants.
  • [20:12 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Now, this top layer will be some pea gravel that will allow mulm to collect and make it easier to collect in vacuuming.
  • [20:13 02/04/2004] <+Chris> BTW- the sand will be at least enough to keep the soil/peat down. Say 1/2" to 3/4".
  • [20:14 02/04/2004] <+Chris> The pea gravel will be like 1/4" deep. But if you have bottom dwellers. you could leave some areas for them to play in the sand. ;)
  • [20:15 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Ok. now to the plants. You could basically have any plant you want, pending on your parameters.
  • [20:16 02/04/2004] <+Chris> I like to have it so that the tank is presentable so that it looks like it would in nature.
  • [20:17 02/04/2004] <+Chris> This would be so that you would mainly have tall plants in the back, and a few in teh front.
  • [20:17 02/04/2004] <+Chris> This also applies with the foreground plants and some in the back.
  • [20:17 02/04/2004] <+Chris> And with midground plants.
  • [20:20 02/04/2004] <+Chris> I would eventually like to have a tank with these kind of plants: Elodea, Java Moss, some Mini swords, crypts, Anubias sp., and others. Some of the elodea, and java moss will float to allow for hiding places for the fishies.
  • [20:21 02/04/2004] <+Chris> The others will be carefully planted in the layered substrate. This is to avoid the soil and sand to cloud up.
  • [20:21 02/04/2004] <+Chris> You do this planting after you fill up the tank with water.
  • [20:21 02/04/2004] Private: <samantha> I'm going to blame my behavior on those pain meds I was given today
  • [20:24 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Now for the lighting. You want to use fluorescent lights that are purple in color when viewed on. This is because of plants loving the red and blue ends of the solar spectrum and not the middle.
  • [20:25 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Also, if you want to control the growth, you could buy a lower wattage? (Just to let you know, I have NO experience with fluor.) ;)
  • [20:27 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Now onto CO2. Since in nature, the plants get there CO2 and such as it is passes by.
  • [20:28 02/04/2004] <+Chris> But in the aquarium, we want to control the amount of CO2, and surface agitation.
  • [20:29 02/04/2004] <+Chris> So Low CO2 levels are a must, along with fertilizers. Which leads to the next topic.
  • [20:30 02/04/2004] <+Chris> When you fertilize, you could use those lily plant tab thingys. LOL
  • [20:31 02/04/2004] <+Chris> You just break them up and push into the lower substrate layer.
  • [20:32 02/04/2004] <+Chris> They should last like for some time.
  • [20:34 02/04/2004] <+Chris> These tablets contain certain elements that are not present in the soil and in teh water. Such as iron, potassium, and others.
  • [20:34 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Now to our main topic. The filtration.
  • [20:35 02/04/2004] <+Chris> As the title indicates this method uses plants to use teh nitrates that are created by fish poo and other stuff in teh aquarium as fertilizer.
  • [20:36 02/04/2004] <+Chris> But to keep this essential balance, you need to do 25% water changes carefully (this also includes vacuuming the gravel.)
  • [20:38 02/04/2004] <+Chris> When you return the water, you need to have a VERY slow water velocity. In other words, you need the water to trickle so slow, that a slug could beat it. ;) But seriously tho, you need to have it slow so that you don't stir up any debris.
  • [20:39 02/04/2004] <+Chris> For teh fishies- you could have any of them, just as long as that they are NOT gravel diggers....
  • [20:40 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Oh, and I forgot to add that algae is a plant too. You can keep a t least a little collected on a rock. And I mean the fuzzy algae that fish grave on.
  • [20:40 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Meant graze in that last post.
  • [20:43 02/04/2004] <+Chris> I would also include that depending on your tank size, you could have the number of gallons + like 5 more. So if you have a 20 gallon, you could have 25 plants in the tank. I would like to also add that you could add any liquid fertilizers also.
  • [20:44 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Oh and one more essential, vital thing- you have to have some form of current that doesn't disrupt the surface that mush. You could use a small powerhead that is on its lowest setting.
  • [20:45 02/04/2004] <+Chris> This is essential because after some time, there is a layer that forms between the plant's cells, and the environment.
  • [20:45 02/04/2004] <+Chris> So I think that is it. Any questions?
  • [20:46 02/04/2004] <@craig> Thank you Chris. :-)
  • [20:46 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Your welcome.
  • [20:46 02/04/2004] <+Chris> :)
  • [20:46 02/04/2004] <@craig> If you have any questions for Chris, please type: /query Craig I have a question
  • [20:48 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> you mentioned a layer that forms between the plant cells
  • [20:48 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> a layer of what?
  • [20:49 02/04/2004] <+Chris> That layer I mentioned would be water that has no nutrients, O2, nothing.
  • [20:49 02/04/2004] <+Chris> It would become "dead" water
  • [20:49 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> ahh.. ok. :-)
  • [20:50 02/04/2004] <+Chris> And one quick note: you can use any electric-motor-driven filter as long as it doesn't create that much agitation.
  • [20:50 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> what kind of fish stocking would you do in such a tank?
  • [20:52 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Uhm.....Considering that teh tank can pretty much take care of the nitrates, I would say for a 20 gal long probably like somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 15 fish. I know this seems extreme, but the only thing that you would have to keep in check are your feedings, and vacuuming.
  • [20:53 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> 10-15 1inch fish or 10-15 4inch fish?
  • [20:54 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Ugh. I knew that would come up. I would say like 3-5 four inch fish and the rest with like 5-7 one inch fish.
  • [20:54 02/04/2004] <+Chris> That would total up to 10 fish.
  • [20:54 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> one last question..
  • [20:55 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Okay
  • [20:55 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> you mentioned low CO2 being a must. In most planted tanks, it is desired to have a high CO2 content.. why would you be aiming for a low CO2 content?
  • [20:57 02/04/2004] <+Chris> You could do that. But I was thinking of having minimum surface agitation. This would mean that the O2 would dissolve slower into the water.
  • [20:58 02/04/2004] <+Chris> And that with low CO2 levels, your fish would be happier
  • [20:59 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Any more questions? :P
  • [20:59 02/04/2004] <@craig> Once again Chris, thank you for taking the time to be here. It is appreciated.
  • [21:00 02/04/2004] <@craig> Ready for the open discussion?
  • [21:00 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Your welcome Craig. I actually appreciated it myself
  • [21:00 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Yes.
  • [21:01 02/04/2004] <@craig> One question from Russ first. :-)
  • [21:01 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Okay
  • [21:01 02/04/2004] <@craig> Russ, get them fingers moving. ;-)
  • [21:01 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Lol
  • [21:01 02/04/2004] <+russ> Hey Chris.....nice presentation......actually have a couple, but I will try to be brief:
  • [21:02 02/04/2004] <+russ> Is there a reasonable pH value for all those plants in a natural setting that you described?
  • [21:03 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Uhm... Good question.
  • [21:04 02/04/2004] <+russ> I have experienced and read an ideal range for most aquatic plants are 6.5-7.0
  • [21:05 02/04/2004] <+russ> What does the peat have to do with the natural filtration process? Is this necessary to soften the water and possibly achieve that desired range?
  • [21:05 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Lemme think.....I would say that if your water pH was say 7.2 ~ 7.4, you could have any plants the thrived say in an environment pH of 7 or in a 7.4 ~ 7.9 environment
  • [21:06 02/04/2004] <+Chris> But since I didn't do any research whatsoever for plants, I am clueless. :(
  • [21:06 02/04/2004] <@craig> Chris, if you don't mind, I can help here a bit. :-)
  • [21:06 02/04/2004] <+russ> one last Q
  • [21:07 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Okay. Scratch the 7.9 and put in a 7.7
  • [21:07 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Okay. Scratch the 7.9 and put in a 7.7
  • [21:07 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Sorry for the double post.
  • [21:07 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Craig whirl your magic.
  • [21:08 02/04/2004] <@craig> Russ, plants can thrive at a much wider range of pH values than fish can. I don't honestly think there is an ideal range.
  • [21:08 02/04/2004] <+russ> This kind of goes out to the group, but is relavent here for the topic. Red Sea has a new substrate comming out called Flora Base. It is comprised of volcanic ash particles and is very porous. have you heard of this?
  • [21:08 02/04/2004] <@craig> Anecdotally, I grow plants in pH 8.2 and they do well. :-)
  • [21:09 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Nope never heard of it.
  • [21:10 02/04/2004] <+Chris> For the peat question- I only added that in due to some people having a higher pH than that of others.
  • [21:10 02/04/2004] <@craig> Also, Russ, the purpose behind the peat is more for nutrient retention, the side affect of its natural ability to lower pH is a nice bonus.
  • [21:10 02/04/2004] <+russ> back to one of my original Qs...What does the peat have to do with the natural filtration process? :-)
  • [21:10 02/04/2004] <+russ> ooops, thats what I get for typing and not looking.
  • [21:10 02/04/2004] <+Chris> What craig said.
  • [21:10 02/04/2004] <+Chris> LOL
  • [21:10 02/04/2004] <+russ> :-)
  • [21:11 02/04/2004] <@craig> And with that... The floor is now open...
  • [21:11 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> Chris, good job, i am proud of ya....
  • [21:11 02/04/2004] <megan> good job chris, thanks :)
  • [21:11 02/04/2004] <+russ> Thanks :-) Got a few more Qs but I had them written down and can't find them now :-/
  • [21:11 02/04/2004] <@craig> Ya got my vote, I like it when people hammer it out letter by letter. :-D
  • [21:12 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Thank you all.
  • [21:12 02/04/2004] <@craig> Russ, I have heard of the Red Sea substrate.
  • [21:12 02/04/2004] <+russ> Thanks Chris :-)
  • [21:12 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Russ, if you can find the questions before I type "Good Night" then I can answer them...
  • [21:13 02/04/2004] <+Chris> JP- are you sleeping?
  • [21:13 02/04/2004] <@craig> Even if he doesn't, I got your back Chris. ;-)
  • [21:13 02/04/2004] <+russ> Thanks Chriss, but I think I left them at my office and won't be back there til Tues :-(
  • [21:13 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Okay craig :) ;)
  • [21:13 02/04/2004] <+Chris> That stinks.
  • [21:14 02/04/2004] <+russ> OOOOO
  • [21:14 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Well, you can post them in the Live Plants section....
  • [21:14 02/04/2004] <+russ> I think I've heard of that 'layer' that Chris was talking about. A more boundry layer than interan cell stuff
  • [21:14 02/04/2004] <+russ> 'internal'
  • [21:15 02/04/2004] <+russ> Surounds the plant leaflet and makes it a little more diffcut for co2 penetration
  • [21:16 02/04/2004] <@craig> I believe what Chris was referring to was that there needs to be some water movement around the surfaces of the plants.
  • [21:16 02/04/2004] <+russ> Craig, I know you and Steve W knows what I mean :-)
  • [21:16 02/04/2004] <@craig> I think I just said it. ;-)
  • [21:16 02/04/2004] <+Chris> I think that some people are sleeping...LOL :P
  • [21:17 02/04/2004] <+russ> Craig, yes, that also, but this is a physical layer attached to the plant itself
  • [21:17 02/04/2004] <@craig> I've only heard of that in plants that were stressed.
  • [21:18 02/04/2004] <@craig> Brought on by nutrient deficiencies.
  • [21:18 02/04/2004] <+russ> Hmmmm, remember reading something Karen Randall wrote about ten years ago in a Aquarium Fish Mag article
  • [21:19 02/04/2004] <+russ> I have to locate that somewhere in my mess
  • [21:20 02/04/2004] <@craig> At any rate, proper nutrients for the plants will ignite growth, which will negate the effects. :-)
  • [21:20 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Okay. Buena Noche
  • [21:20 02/04/2004] <@craig> Take care Chris, thanks for being here. :-)
  • [21:20 02/04/2004] <megan> bye chris, thanks again :)
  • [21:20 02/04/2004] <+russ> Ok, plants and water changes aid in the removal of nitrates which is of major importance to natural filtration?
  • [21:20 02/04/2004] <@craig> There is some merit in that. :-)
  • [21:20 02/04/2004] <+Chris> Welcome...
  • [21:21 02/04/2004] <+russ> thanks againChris:-)
  • [21:21 02/04/2004] <@craig> Water changes will replace traces that are consumed by the plants. ;-)
  • [21:22 02/04/2004] <+russ> What if a large portion of the plants break the water surface and expell nitrates directly to the atmosphere?
  • [21:22 02/04/2004] <samantha> wha?
  • [21:22 02/04/2004] <@craig> Exactly how does a plant expel nitrates?
  • [21:22 02/04/2004] <+russ> Natural nitrogen cycle
  • [21:22 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I'm sorry, I missed the bulk of this chat, but I thought we were supposed to prune plants to keep them at least an inch below water level.
  • [21:23 02/04/2004] <+russ> Yes, for asthetic purposes to please our eyes:-)
  • [21:23 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ah gotcha
  • [21:23 02/04/2004] <@craig> Russ, you are going to have to go farther than that, NO3 doesn't break down in air. It is consumed by bacteria..
  • [21:24 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> nitrogen itself is released into the air tho
  • [21:25 02/04/2004] <@craig> There has to be a chemical reaction to release the nitrogen in 'free' form, that is what I am getting at.
  • [21:25 02/04/2004] <+russ> Most aquatic plants have a 'surface' part to them in their natural habitats. A good portion that you won't recognize if you saw them in real life surroundings.;-)
  • [21:26 02/04/2004] <@craig> Bring it on. :-D Elucidate..
  • [21:26 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> yyup, they're rather different.. just watch how marsh mermaid and parrots feather change when they hit the surface...
  • [21:26 02/04/2004] <+russ> Craig, underwater yes, but the plants that are above the surface act the same way as terrestrial plants
  • [21:27 02/04/2004] <@craig> Yes, the consume nitrogen directly, I never knew they -produced- it.
  • [21:28 02/04/2004] <+russ> Now I can't remember all the stuff I had written down and left at work :-/ lol
  • [21:29 02/04/2004] <@craig> When you get the info, post it..
  • [21:30 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I have a million general questions about plants, but I don't want to steal the whole chat with them because they don't really pertain to Chris's lecture. Its too bad I couldn't join in sooner. I'll try to be more punctual next time.
  • [21:31 02/04/2004] <@craig> Natural respiration from photosynthesis produces oxygen, which is the only by-product of that process. I'm intrigued by the nitrogen thing tho and have an open mind. :-)
  • [21:31 02/04/2004] <@craig> Ob, fire away.
  • [21:31 02/04/2004] <+russ> I'll try to so that, but its not that the plants produce it, but take what they need, and expell the rest. This is done a hundred times more efficiently then under water
  • [21:31 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> obfishion, ask away
  • [21:31 02/04/2004] <@craig> Umm, I don't think the expell the rest, they never use it in the first place.
  • [21:31 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Oh, okay... Well is there any rule of thumb for the amount of space you leave in between plants?
  • [21:32 02/04/2004] <@craig> I know where you are headed Russ, nitrogen fixation. :-D
  • [21:33 02/04/2004] <+russ> something like that. Yep, aquatic plants actually use very litte nitrogen(nitrate)
  • [21:33 02/04/2004] <@craig> Well, not so fast..
  • [21:33 02/04/2004] <@craig> That's why we strive for substrates with a relatively high CEC.
  • [21:34 02/04/2004] <+russ> CEC ?
  • [21:34 02/04/2004] <@craig> Ability to hold stuff. :-D
  • [21:34 02/04/2004] <+russ> ah
  • [21:34 02/04/2004] <@craig> If a plant can't fix the nitrogen it never uses it.
  • [21:35 02/04/2004] <+russ> ammonium, light, iron, co@, and a light mix of trace elements, thats my motto :-D
  • [21:35 02/04/2004] <@craig> Obfishion: sorry, it depends on the root mass of the plant.
  • [21:35 02/04/2004] <+russ> 'co2'
  • [21:36 02/04/2004] <@craig> Yer runnin' Russ. ;-D
  • [21:36 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Okay, well, I'll leave things as is, quite bunched together, and see how it goes. If any particular plant seems to flounder, I'll remove it.
  • [21:36 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> lol, sorry
  • [21:36 02/04/2004] <+russ> I'm running out of things to say about this without opening up novels of dicussion again ...lol :-D
  • [21:37 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> what kind of plant?
  • [21:37 02/04/2004] <@craig> Wuss. :-D
  • [21:37 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Oh I have a few, uhh... lemme get my list
  • [21:37 02/04/2004] <+russ> I have to admit though, that I never use plant tabs or mix laterite with vermiculite :-)
  • [21:38 02/04/2004] <@craig> And I use a plain gravel substrate..
  • [21:38 02/04/2004] <+russ> that works too :-D
  • [21:38 02/04/2004] <+russ> b r b :C
  • [21:38 02/04/2004] <@craig> pfft..
  • [21:39 02/04/2004] <+russ> :-P
  • [21:39 02/04/2004] * @craig fires one up right here.. :-D
  • [21:42 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I have hygrophilia polysperma, echinodorus osiris, echinodorus bleheri, anubias, cryptocoryne, cardamine lyrata, and two more types that I can't identify. I don't know the common names of these plants..
  • [21:42 02/04/2004] <@craig> Common names aren't needed.. :-D
  • [21:43 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> the stem plants, i.e. polysperma, i like putting an inch apart as they fill in fast
  • [21:43 02/04/2004] <@craig> Obfishion: The echinodorus, you'll probably want at least an inch to two inches between.
  • [21:43 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Except I think that one is ceratopteris thalictroides
  • [21:43 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> okay..
  • [21:44 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> the crypts i end up having /2-1 inch apart
  • [21:44 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> sometimes more
  • [21:44 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> okay
  • [21:44 02/04/2004] <@craig> The anubias, will tend to "stand up" as it grows, the roots will push the rhyzome above the substrate.
  • [21:45 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> And the rhyzome is what I cut in half to propagate, right? Is the rhyzome easily identifiable?
  • [21:45 02/04/2004] <@craig> Yes and yes. :-D
  • [21:45 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Told ya I would steal the board :)
  • [21:46 02/04/2004] <@craig> Its the thick tuber like member of the plant that the leaves grow from.
  • [21:46 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> okay. My anubias are growing faster than my crypts!
  • [21:46 02/04/2004] <@craig> They will do that.. ;-)
  • [21:47 02/04/2004] <@craig> Crypts can be notoriously slow growers..
  • [21:47 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Okay, now is ceratopteris thalictroides also known as water sprite?
  • [21:47 02/04/2004] <@craig> Possibly..
  • [21:47 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> i think that might be the one
  • [21:48 02/04/2004] <@craig> Fine leaf water sprite..
  • [21:48 02/04/2004] <@craig> (Google is your friend)
  • [21:48 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> ;-)
  • [21:48 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I know this "water sprite"'s description reads easy and fast growth, however, do they tend to be quite finicky about substrate or nutrients or something, because my roots are all black.
  • [21:49 02/04/2004] <@craig> I've had a hard time with water sprite, much like cardamine, I have to let it float to grow. :-/
  • [21:49 02/04/2004] <+russ> Same here
  • [21:49 02/04/2004] <@craig> Which in hindsight, indicates light..
  • [21:50 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Dido on the cardamine. But that's partly due to the fish nibbling at it I thnk.
  • [21:50 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhh light... that brings us to the next question
  • [21:51 02/04/2004] <@craig> Cardamine has fragile stems, you sneeze outside the tank the stuff breaks. :-D
  • [21:51 02/04/2004] <+russ> thats the truth!
  • [21:52 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> As you may know, I have these plants in a 44g tall. The only light is the florescent one it came with. Now I have another light strip which is just the two little screw in light bulbs - 25 watt(give off a ton of heat). Would adding this strip to the tank be beneficial?
  • [21:52 02/04/2004] <+russ> yes
  • [21:52 02/04/2004] <@craig> Obfishion: change out the bulbs for screw-in compact fluorescents, then, yes.
  • [21:53 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> You can get screw in fluorescents? The fish store guy is such a liar!
  • [21:53 02/04/2004] <+russ> you cover a range of depth with that combo, but there are flos that will do that also as Craig indicated
  • [21:53 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> He tried selling me light strips ranging from $88 to $300
  • [21:53 02/04/2004] <@craig> Ob, they are the curly looking ones that you buy at the hardware store. :-D
  • [21:54 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhhhh. Thank-you so much for the tip. So they're just called "compact fluorescents"?
  • [21:54 02/04/2004] <@craig> One sec, lemme dig up a link. :-D
  • [21:54 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> How sweet
  • [21:54 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/message_board/messages/18/17926.html?1080352407
  • [21:55 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> scroll down to see a pic
  • [21:55 02/04/2004] <@craig> http://www.bulbman.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=471 -- called spirals on that page.
  • [21:55 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Thanks so much. I only have two more questions left and then I'll leave you all alone :)
  • [21:55 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> lol... no worries
  • [21:55 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Okay easy one first..
  • [21:56 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> do you guys have some sort of pruning tool or something. I tried to pick a yellow leaf of my crypt the other day and ended pulling the whole thing out of the gravel
  • [21:56 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> stainless steel scissors or fingernails..
  • [21:56 02/04/2004] <@craig> I use a pair of scissors..
  • [21:57 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> scissors is better, but my nails are handiers.. lol
  • [21:57 02/04/2004] <@craig> For tank use only of course.
  • [21:57 02/04/2004] <+russ> Just a good pair of long, thin blade stainless sizzors. Beter to cut than to pinch ;-)
  • [21:57 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> haha I tried that and ended up cutting off way too much . Couldn't see what I was doing. Okay, I guess practice makes perfect and I'll designate a pair of "aquarium scissors"
  • [21:57 02/04/2004] <+russ> yep:-)
  • [21:57 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> i know russ.. but sometimes the only way it'll get done is nails.. lol...
  • [21:58 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Last one... fertilization...
  • [21:58 02/04/2004] <@craig> Fish poop! ;-D
  • [21:58 02/04/2004] <+russ> Jess, you just like to get intamit with your tank :-)
  • [21:58 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> lol
  • [21:58 02/04/2004] <+russ> (sp)
  • [21:58 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> intimate? ;-)
  • [21:58 02/04/2004] <+russ> yes, that too :-D
  • [21:58 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> :-D
  • [21:59 02/04/2004] <+russ> fish poop and co2 woks pretty well
  • [21:59 02/04/2004] <@craig> And if you have a high enough KH so does surface agitation. :-P
  • [21:59 02/04/2004] * @craig runs
  • [22:00 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> hehe
  • [22:00 02/04/2004] <+russ> yep, I think that was well discussed a little while ago :-)
  • [22:00 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> A guy at the LFS seemed quite knowledgable about plants. He sold me "Plant Gro Iron Enriched Fertilizer Liquid along with these Plant Gro Fertilizer Sticks. Does this sound like balanced nutrition?
  • [22:00 02/04/2004] <@craig> Without knowing the break down its hard to tell.
  • [22:00 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Ugh thats a lot of typing
  • [22:01 02/04/2004] <@craig> Best bet is to follow the instructions and observe your plants.
  • [22:01 02/04/2004] <+russ> Aquatic plants do not take up as much nutients from roots as the terrestrial guys,
  • [22:01 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> So you're saying the sticks are bogus?
  • [22:01 02/04/2004] <@craig> Echinodorus species do Russ.
  • [22:01 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ah
  • [22:01 02/04/2004] <+russ> you may not need them
  • [22:01 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> and crypts
  • [22:02 02/04/2004] <+russ> Craig, swords are weird plants. They can produce in as many ways as there are species....lol
  • [22:02 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> You all are so helpful.
  • [22:02 02/04/2004] <@craig> Ob, you planted the plants, you know what the root systems look like......
  • [22:02 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> yah...
  • [22:02 02/04/2004] <@craig> If the plants have a substantial root mass, stuff a stick next to it. :-)
  • [22:03 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> okay, will do
  • [22:03 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> definatly put some buy the Echs then
  • [22:03 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> *by
  • [22:03 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> got one more.. heheh
  • [22:03 02/04/2004] <@craig> Crypts too, they will probably outgrow the echinodorus. ;-)
  • [22:04 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Can you name some easy to grow/easy to find colorful plants (redish, purple)?
  • [22:04 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I think I'll need a replacemnt for this cardamine as its slowly getting eaten away
  • [22:04 02/04/2004] <@craig> Red ludwigia, just make sure it has access to light, IOW, not covered by broad leafed plants.
  • [22:04 02/04/2004] <+russ> Lobelia cardenalis(sp)
  • [22:04 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> IOW?
  • [22:04 02/04/2004] <@craig> In other words
  • [22:05 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> oh hah
  • [22:05 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Lobelia cardenalis's demands are difficult.
  • [22:05 02/04/2004] <@craig> Root tabs/sticks will help with them too, they are one of the few stem plants that will develop a substantial root mass.
  • [22:05 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> At least according to this website.
  • [22:06 02/04/2004] <@craig> (Ludwigia that is)
  • [22:08 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Is your ludwigia colorful? because the one I've got a pic of isn't really.
  • [22:08 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Whoa bold
  • [22:08 02/04/2004] <@craig> Lemme dig up the pic.. :-D
  • [22:08 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> click on the 'a' next to the text
  • [22:09 02/04/2004] <+russ> have to depart for a little while, bbl :-)
  • [22:09 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> see ya
  • [22:09 02/04/2004] <@craig> Ob: http://www.2cah.com/pets/QT.JPG -- dead center. :-)
  • [22:10 02/04/2004] <@craig> That's an old pic, but it still looks like that.
  • [22:11 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> why can't I copy and paste from here?
  • [22:12 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhh that is pretty.
  • [22:12 02/04/2004] <@Jessica> just double click on it
  • [22:12 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohh okay thanks
  • [22:12 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ugh my font keeps changing, i've had a few beers, and am clicking like a mad-woman
  • [22:12 02/04/2004] <+russ> :B
  • [22:13 02/04/2004] <+russ> brb
  • [22:13 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> lol
  • [22:14 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I can't find my dang loaches I want *sigh*
  • [22:15 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> lol what are you looking for?
  • [22:15 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Craig, you said you let your cardamine float to grow>?
  • [22:15 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Yes, I did Ob.
  • [22:15 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Jess, golden zebra loaches
  • [22:15 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Histrionicas, cool!
  • [22:16 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> histronicas are pretty
  • [22:16 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i've only seen them once
  • [22:16 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Okay, another question then: I have a cave in my tank for my shark which has holes all along it, what if I kind of stuck it in a hole instead of having it burried in the gravel, do you think that would work?
  • [22:17 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Provided the fish didn't move it, yes.
  • [22:17 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Zebra loaches are histrioniccas? I thought they were botia striata
  • [22:17 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Ob, golden is the key. :-)
  • [22:17 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Great LoachKing, that will look great. I'm gonna try it
  • [22:17 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhh, so if I tried just zebra loach, I might have better luck?
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> depends.. lol
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> You have golden zebra loaches, right?
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> its a different fish
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> They still only get 3-4 inches right? Golden must be just a variate?
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> oh
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> no golden are more like yoyos
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Nope, different species. :-D
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> well which one gets 3-4 inches?
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> little larger..
  • [22:18 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> The ones you have will be fine.
  • [22:19 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> craig, i don't think she has any
  • [22:19 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> she's trying to find some, right?
  • [22:19 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> So I should still be looking for GOLDEN zebra loach. (right Jess)
  • [22:19 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I mean LoachQueen
  • [22:19 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Ding.. Pardon, soz. :-)
  • [22:19 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> depends on what you want, lol
  • [22:19 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Ob, go for the golden zebra loaches, 3 will be fine in that tank.
  • [22:19 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> you can call me jess..
  • [22:20 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I want the smaller of the two
  • [22:20 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> hah you say my post.
  • [22:20 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> *saw
  • [22:20 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> k, now i'm slurring my typing, I'd better go soon
  • [22:20 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Histrionicas are slow growers, it will take some time for them to grow too big for your tank. Even at that 3 of them will be no burden on your tank.
  • [22:20 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> lol.. i do that without alcohol, so. its ok ;-)
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> hehhe
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> all this talk of loaches...
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> K, let me clarify: Golden zebra loaches are Histrionicas, Zebra loaches are botia striata.
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Exactly.
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] * @LoachQueen goes to look at her school of angelicus
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> k thanks
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Striatas are cool too. ;-)
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] * @LoachKing has 6
  • [22:21 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Neither of you are Canadian probably, right?
  • [22:22 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Nope.
  • [22:22 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I can't find them anywhere, (found clowns easy, but way too big). Can't find any online stores that will ship to me either
  • [22:22 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> *sigh*
  • [22:22 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> brb
  • [22:22 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Ob, have you ever looked around on Loaches OnLine?
  • [22:23 02/04/2004] * @LoachKing too, 3 32 ounces glasses of tea are having their effect
  • [22:26 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> 6 striatas now?
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I don't think so LoachKing, do they ship fish internationally?
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> LOL
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Ob, not a fish place, its a message board and loach site..
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> www.loaches.com
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhh
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> lol
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> yup, that..
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> and theres lots of canadians there to
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] * JP looks around for technical crap.
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Look for Martin Theone, he's a canuck.. He can help. :-D
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <JP> Looks safe. :)
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhhhh thanks
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Excellent
  • [22:27 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> btw
  • [22:28 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> What would I do without you guys
  • [22:28 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> don't just email him off the bat... post to the board i advise
  • [22:28 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Send money. :-D
  • [22:28 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> hehe
  • [22:28 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> yup.. looking to upgrade to a pond.. every little bit helps ;-)
  • [22:29 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> So Jess, if we plant our tanks heavily what would you say the chances of having a high NO3 test result? :-D
  • [22:29 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> lol.. well i haven't yet, so... ;-)
  • [22:30 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> You do know tho, that plants prefer NH4 over NO3..
  • [22:30 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> that they do
  • [22:30 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> which must make having chloramines nice.. use a little amquel.. and wallah
  • [22:30 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Are you saying that overplanting is bad?
  • [22:30 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> no, its very good
  • [22:31 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> NH4 takes out the need for nitrogen fixation as the plants can directly uptake it with less expended energy.
  • [22:31 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> as long as the plants are alive and growing
  • [22:31 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhh good good good. thats what I've done
  • [22:31 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> okay
  • [22:31 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> even if its slow growth
  • [22:31 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Ob, I'm yanking JPs chain right now. ;-D
  • [22:31 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> (i.e. crypts.. ;-) )
  • 22:32 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i think JP is ignoring you or missing it..
  • [22:32 02/04/2004] <JP> All I know is the plants look good. Beyond that, I don't care. :)
  • [22:32 02/04/2004] <JP> Ignore Craig? I wouldn't dare....
  • [22:32 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Nitrogen fixation is a fascinating topic, I do wish Russ hadn't wussed out on me..
  • [22:33 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> hehe
  • [22:33 02/04/2004] <JP> That just means he knows that you were right.
  • [22:33 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> I wanted to talk about root nodes being the primary source of nitrogen uptake in certain plants. :-D
  • [22:34 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> and the nitrogen fixing bacteria that lives in them?
  • [22:34 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> And the fact that they needed a symbiotic relationship with a special bacteria to do it..
  • [22:34 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Yeppers Jess. :-D
  • [22:34 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> You've been studying. ;-)
  • [22:34 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> hey, i took a class on plant bio, and one one on molecular bio...
  • [22:34 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i remmeber a few things..
  • [22:35 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> I just read on saturday. ;-D
  • [22:35 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> honestly thats where i learned about the nitrogen cycle in relation to fish...
  • [22:35 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> and fish were never mentioned hehe
  • [22:35 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Understood..
  • [22:35 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> saturday reading probably got you more info, i imagine tho
  • [22:35 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Sully got me started on this trek. :-D
  • [22:36 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> :-D
  • [22:36 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> I should post my "Gas exchange" bookmark folder.
  • [22:36 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> do!
  • [22:37 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> I learned one thing from all that reading...
  • [22:37 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> only one? :-P
  • [22:37 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> One important thing.. ;-)
  • [22:37 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> KH is the key in my tanks success..
  • [22:37 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> only one? :-P
  • [22:37 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> hehe
  • [22:37 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> :-D
  • [22:37 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> kH is where? i forget
  • [22:38 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Free CO2 (which is what plants take up) always move towards equilibrium, that being 1-2% of total CO2 in the tank.
  • [22:38 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> KH=carbonate hardness
  • [22:38 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> naw, what was your measurements
  • [22:39 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> readings
  • [22:39 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Ohh..
  • [22:39 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> whatever
  • [22:39 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> 17 degrees, too many ppms for me to do in my head..
  • [22:39 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> dang! i thought your KH was lower.. wowsers
  • [22:39 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> GH is worse.. :-D
  • [22:40 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> always is
  • [22:40 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Not always..
  • [22:40 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> you sure it hasn't gone up?
  • [22:40 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> But in most cases, yes.
  • [22:40 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> ok, well often enough...
  • [22:40 02/04/2004] * @LoachQueen smacks hand.. neveer say 'always or never'
  • [22:41 02/04/2004] <JP> How about one of you come over and do all of those fancy tests on my tanks.....I guess I'd like to know what that stuff is. :)
  • [22:41 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> KH has remained pretty constant. AP test kits take me for ever to do. :-D
  • [22:41 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> jp.. buy a bottle or 2 ;-)
  • [22:41 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i bet
  • [22:41 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> actually, have you ever noticed a discrepancy when you shake after each drop?
  • [22:41 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> After about 12 drops I get tired of doing it. :-D
  • [22:41 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Slight ones, but the color always settles in.
  • [22:42 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> when i do it, shaking after each drop its about 1-3 degrees more than actual
  • [22:42 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> And it usually only happens when I get close to the target range of the reading.
  • [22:43 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i.e. if i just put in the total amounts (in the zone i nknow i'm in) in different in each tube and shake those up...
  • [22:44 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> ok.. i guess noone ever looked at that.. lol
  • [22:44 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Continue to shake the tubes after the target amount, they *should* end up the same.
  • [22:44 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i think its the tubes, some of the stoppers dont fit well, shake em, and liquid does come out...
  • [22:45 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> or when you take the lids off
  • [22:45 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> they like dripping...
  • [22:45 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i just need to get more hagen TT, i like those
  • [22:46 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i feel like i'm talking to myself.. i'm going to go get some tea or something..
  • [22:46 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I was listening
  • [22:46 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> lol
  • [22:47 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Craig still there?
  • [22:47 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Yes..
  • [22:47 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Did you say you floated your water sprite as well?
  • [22:47 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Yep.
  • [22:47 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> SO I could try the same thing: weave through a hole in the cave?
  • [22:48 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> If I kept it in the gravel, it would stop growing like normal and develop broad leaves.
  • [22:48 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Along with thick stems.
  • [22:48 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> hm
  • [22:49 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> I gave up on it, replaced it with h. polysperma and never looked back.
  • [22:49 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I love my polysperma
  • [22:49 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Did you get the green or sunset?
  • [22:50 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> But the sprite was growing while floating?
  • [22:50 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Yes.
  • [22:50 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I got the Rosanavig or something like that, the more mature leaves go pink
  • [22:50 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Sunset. :-)
  • [22:50 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> its growing like crazy
  • [22:50 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhh sunset, good to know
  • [22:50 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Nip it about half way and replant..
  • [22:51 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> to propagate you mean?
  • [22:51 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Or, if you want it to spread on its own, just nip the tops, eventually it will start to grow horizontally along the substrate.
  • [22:52 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> But for the first suggestion, just plunk the stem in the gravel?
  • [22:52 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Yep.
  • [22:52 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> wow, awesome.
  • [22:52 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I'll probabaly be quizzing you up when it comes time to propagate some of the other plants
  • [22:52 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> if needed
  • [22:52 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Hygro is not a root feeder, it sucks nutrients directly from the water column.
  • [22:53 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> oh, so a fertilizer stick there would be no good
  • [22:53 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Right, that's where the liquid fertz come into play.
  • [22:53 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> The Iron
  • [22:53 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> That and a few others.
  • [22:54 02/04/2004] * @LoachKing misses his queen
  • [22:54 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> so as far as I've heard, the sticks are only beneficial for the Echs and the Crypts
  • [22:54 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> awwww
  • [22:54 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Its really any plant that has a large root mass.
  • [22:54 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> oh okay
  • [22:54 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> so do i..
  • [22:54 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> :-D
  • [22:54 02/04/2004] * @LoachKing snuggles up :-D
  • [22:55 02/04/2004] * @LoachQueen does the loachy dance
  • [22:55 02/04/2004] <JP> At least Sam and I don't snuggle.
  • [22:55 02/04/2004] <JP> Keep the fins on alright.
  • [22:55 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> you're missen out ;-{
  • [22:55 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Life's a problem?
  • [22:55 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> ;-P was the intended smiley
  • [22:56 02/04/2004] <JP> :P
  • [22:56 02/04/2004] * @LoachKing was talking to JP :-D
  • [22:56 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> nope ;-P (i wan't typo-ing there ;-)
  • [22:56 02/04/2004] <JP> Oh, I'm sorry.... :P
  • [22:56 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> LK , i know :-D
  • [22:56 02/04/2004] * @LoachKing does the loachy dance
  • [22:57 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> hehe.. he learned it!
  • [23:02 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Can I barge in with yet another Plant question?
  • [23:02 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> of course
  • [23:02 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> In my kooky font
  • [23:02 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Would a twist tie with all the paper stuff taken off be toxic to the fish?
  • [23:02 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> or plants?
  • [23:03 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> i wouldnt use it...
  • [23:03 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> k
  • [23:03 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> try a rubber band
  • [23:03 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> or thread
  • [23:03 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhh thread, great idea
  • [23:03 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> if you want to tie something up
  • [23:03 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> :-)
  • [23:03 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I'm trying to think of ways to rig up my water sprite, so it won't come loose from a rock decoration
  • [23:04 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> hmm. not planted?
  • [23:04 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Fishing line..
  • [23:04 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohh fishing line good one
  • [23:04 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> why can't I think of these things
  • [23:04 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> lol... probably could ;-)
  • [23:04 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> I'm a painter, yet not creative? go figure
  • [23:04 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> hi zapins
  • [23:05 02/04/2004] <JP> That's what I use with my oscar and the fake plants. He can't rip them out now.
  • [23:05 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> fishing line JP?
  • [23:05 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> obfishion, what do you paint?
  • [23:05 02/04/2004] <JP> yep
  • [23:05 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> oil paintings, arcrylic ect.
  • [23:05 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> *etc
  • [23:06 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> cool, what subject matter and style?
  • [23:06 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> and do you have anything online?
  • [23:06 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> Umm, well, just self-taught really. I've been doing landscapes, would like to get into some more abstract, but still practicing my techniques and everything
  • [23:06 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> done some horses, and other animals too
  • [23:07 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> that still cool. outsider art is the rave lately ;-)
  • [23:07 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohhh and my fish painting, i'm most prooud of that
  • [23:07 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> can we see it?
  • [23:07 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> ohh, don't have any pics, no digital camera
  • [23:07 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> but, i've been bugging the hubby to splerge for me and buy a good digetal camera, so I'm sure soon you will see it
  • [23:07 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> great
  • [23:08 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> we need to take this to another channel..
  • [23:08 02/04/2004] <Zapins> hi
  • [23:08 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> head to #badmanschat
  • [23:08 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> i love it. Not meaning to gloat but I'm so proud of it. Its a big round circle, has plants and all sorts of fish (which BTW if they all were really alive they'd all kill eachother)
  • [23:08 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> hi zap
  • [23:08 02/04/2004] <Zapins> wow lol it took awhile to figuer out i was already in the right channel...
  • [23:09 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> where do we go Jess?
  • [23:09 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> everyone either click on channels and then #badmanschat or type /join #badmanschat
  • [23:09 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> am I here?
  • [23:09 02/04/2004] <Obfishion> lol
  • [23:09 02/04/2004] <@LoachKing> Thanks Jess. :-D
  • [23:10 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> sure craig :-D
  • [23:10 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> zap you too...
  • [23:10 02/04/2004] <@LoachQueen> #fishchat is officially out of session...


 

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