jay

transcript

  • [20:03 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> Welcome to this week's Fishchat.
  • [20:03 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> Tonight our very own Craig (aka Basher and Botia Junkie) will be talking about Building a River Tank.
  • [20:03 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> Please hold all questions until after the presentation
  • [20:04 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> Whenever you're ready craig :-)
  • [20:04 21/05/2004] <@craig> Good evening everyone!
  • [20:04 21/05/2004] <@craig> The presentation will be rather short, as I intended this to more of a Q & A session to answer any questions folks might have about rivertanks and their uses.
  • [20:05 21/05/2004] <@craig> Here we go....
  • [20:05 21/05/2004] <@craig> So you want to build a river.......tank?
  • [20:05 21/05/2004] <@craig> I started this project with one goal in mind, I wanted a tank that I could keep a few species of hillstream loaches in. Hillstream loaches have specific conditions they need to survive in, sadly most people that buy them don't provide them with the specialized environment they need to survive.
  • [20:06 21/05/2004] <@craig> Although this tank was purpose built for hillstreams, the design can be used for any cold water fish that lives in streams or other fast flowing waters.
  • [20:06 21/05/2004] <@craig> Here I will try to give you a step by step guide, with a few pictures along the way, to help you build a successful river tank.
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> -Getting Started-
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> The best starter tank would be a 20 long, while not the biggest tank, it does provide a good length to height ratio. Here's the materials list that I used to get mine started:
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 20 Long All-Glass tank
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 2 - Hagen Aquaclear 201 powerheads
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> Penguin Mini with biowheel
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 6 feet 3/4" I/D PVC
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 4 3/4" PVC tees
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 4 3/4" 90 degree elbows
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 1 Fluval 3 sponge
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 30 lbs #1 rainbox mix gravel
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 10 lbs play sand
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 8 lbs red slate
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 5 2-4" river stones
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> Diaphragm operated air pump
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 7 feet standard airline tubing
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 2-way gang valve
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 7 inch piece of african driftwood
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> Hood from a 10 gallon tank
  • [20:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> 2 Screw-in compact fluorescent bulbs, 19 watts each
  • [20:08 21/05/2004] <@craig> Clean everything before you start assembly, its easier to do it now than later.
  • [20:09 21/05/2004] <@craig> -Building the Tank-
  • [20:09 21/05/2004] <@craig> Measure the PVC first. You want to do this with the powerheads in place so you don't make the same mistake I did. I made the manifold for my rivertank too long and had to tilt the risers forward so I could mount the powerheads. I found that by making the end pieces of the manifold first it makes it easier to measure the length for the sides.
  • [20:10 21/05/2004] <@craig> This picture illustrates the wrong way: http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/rivertank/rtank-l.jpg
  • [20:10 21/05/2004] <@craig> Note how the risers are tilted forward.
  • [20:11 21/05/2004] <@craig> For the right way...
  • [20:11 21/05/2004] <@craig> For the end pieces here I cut 1.5 inch pieces of the PVC. 3 for each end piece.
  • [20:11 21/05/2004] <@craig> For the risers on each end I cut 4 pieces of PVC approximately 3 inches long.
  • [20:12 21/05/2004] <@craig> Assembly of the end pieces is fairly straight forward. Assemble two tees onto one of the small sections you cut earlier making sure to align the tees. Take two more of each small section and put them into the tees on each end. At the end of each of those place one of the elbow connectors. Attach the riser stems to the open ends of the tees. Repeat for the other end piece. You can use PVC glue to weld them together, but I found that I got a tight enough seal
  • [20:12 21/05/2004] <@craig> with out using any glue at all.
  • [20:13 21/05/2004] <@craig> With the end pieces laying on the bottom of the tank and your powerheads mounted you can now measure for the length of the side pieces. I don't have exact measurements because I just eye-balled it. Cut two of them and assemble the end pieces onto them. Your manifold is now complete.
  • [20:14 21/05/2004] <@craig> Now its just a matter of putting the manifold in place and covering it up with gravel. It took 30 pounds of 2-4mm gravel to cover my manifold and give me about 1/2 over the top of it to hide it.
  • [20:14 21/05/2004] <@craig> The Hagen AquaClear 201 powerheads need no special attachments to fit to the risers, the intakes are almost a perfect match for the 3/4 PVC tubing. Just slide the suction cup holder on the back of the powerhead and slide the intake into the PVC, then press the powerhead against the wall of the tank. Repeat for the other powerhead.
  • [20:15 21/05/2004] <@craig> On the intake end of the manifold, opposite the powerheads, I took the fluval 3 sponge and cut it in half, slide one half onto each riser.
  • [20:16 21/05/2004] <@craig> Cut the insert for the sponge in half and use it to plug the holes in the center of the main sponge.
  • [20:16 21/05/2004] <@craig> Note: With 3/4" PVC and fluval 3 sponges, you will want to fold the inserts in half before inserting them.
  • [20:17 21/05/2004] <@craig> This will keep them from getting sucked into the manifold.
  • [20:17 21/05/2004] <@craig> Here's what my tank looked like at this point:
  • [20:17 21/05/2004] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/rivertank/rivertank.jpg
  • [20:18 21/05/2004] <@craig> Once you have the tank filled and the water conditioned, its time to hook up the air pump and lines to the venturis on the powerheads. I cut two 1 foot sections of airline tubing and hooked them up to the 3-way gang valve, another 3 foot section was hooked up to the input side of the gang valve and ran to the airpump. The two short sections off the gang valve were then hooked up to the venturis. I also placed the penguin mini on the powerhead side of the
  • [20:18 21/05/2004] <@craig> tank. Then I powered everything up.
  • [20:18 21/05/2004] <@craig> You'll know how well you rinsed your gravel at this stage of the game. :-)
  • [20:19 21/05/2004] <@craig> I wanted a cheap light hood, so I found an old dresser drawer that would comfortably house the light strips. I ripped the bottom panel out of the drawer and cut a 3/8" piece paneling to fit. I then mounted the two light strips. I bought undercabinet light strips that were pre-assembled with cords since I wanted to keep this simple.
  • [20:20 21/05/2004] <@craig> Which is the lighting I used for the first rivertank. The second rivertank I used a hood from a 10 gallon tank, which I replaced the incandescent bulbs with the 2 screw-in compacts.
  • [20:21 21/05/2004] <@craig> I cut two small pieces of furring strip to set across the tank front to back to rest the hood on.
  • [20:21 21/05/2004] <@craig> I chose 5 types of plants for my tank. Sunset Hygro, Anubias Nana, Dwarf Chain Swords and some Crypts (wendtii I *think*) and some as of yet undetermined type of moss.
  • [20:22 21/05/2004] <@craig> With everything in place, the tank looks like this:
  • [20:22 21/05/2004] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/rivertank/rivrclear.JPG
  • [20:22 21/05/2004] <@craig> A few days later, I added the driftwood:
  • [20:22 21/05/2004] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/rivertank/rivrwood.JPG
  • [20:23 21/05/2004] <@craig> The second rivertank is shown here:
  • [20:23 21/05/2004] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/rivertank/cleanriver.JPG
  • [20:23 21/05/2004] <@craig> -Wrapping It All Up-
  • [20:23 21/05/2004] <@craig> This was a very satisfactory project from beginning to end. It wasn't too complex and the end result was a nice looking tank that will keep the future hillstreams quite happy.
  • [20:24 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> If you have any questions, type /query Jessica I have a question
  • [20:26 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> ok, i'll start it out. you mentioned driftwood as a necessary item. do hillstreams need it like plecos, it is it an asthetic item?
  • [20:26 21/05/2004] <@craig> Its not necessarily a needed item, but its another place for algae to get a foothold.
  • [20:27 21/05/2004] <@craig> Its goes against what most think, but algae is a good thing with hillstreams.
  • [20:28 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> what wattage of screw-ins flourescents did you use?
  • [20:28 21/05/2004] <@craig> 19 watt.
  • [20:28 21/05/2004] <@craig> While we are waiting, you can have some fun with the tank too:
  • [20:28 21/05/2004] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/rivertank/bamboo.jpg
  • [20:29 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> I guess people are just waiting for me to open the floor, so I'll go ahead and do so. Thank you very much Craig
  • [20:29 21/05/2004] <@craig> Most welcome. :-)
  • [20:29 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> one moment..
  • [20:29 21/05/2004] <@craig> Uhoh..
  • [20:30 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> go ahead and ask your question martin :-D
  • [20:30 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Thought I just did?
  • [20:31 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> martin asked: I'm not quite clear on how you did your sponges. Mine are 4" diameter by 4" high and have a blind hole in the centre. The vertical pipe is all drilled so the whole sponge gets utilised
  • [20:31 21/05/2004] <@craig> Martin, fluval 3 sponges are a cylinder that is open the entire length.
  • [20:32 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Yeah
  • [20:32 21/05/2004] <@craig> They come with an insert that can be put inside of it to make it complete.
  • [20:33 21/05/2004] <@craig> Fluval 3 sponges are also 6 or 7 inches tall (can't rember off the top of my head), so cutting them in half makes them the perfect size.
  • [20:33 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> I knew that
  • [20:33 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Sorry for my delays. Momfish keeps asking me stuff:)
  • [20:34 21/05/2004] <@craig> I didn't drill my risers like you did.
  • [20:34 21/05/2004] <@craig> I only push the sponge onto the riser about an inch.
  • [20:34 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> So your inserts sit on top of the tubes? I'm cinfused ;)
  • [20:35 21/05/2004] <@craig> More or less, yes..
  • [20:35 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Now I get it
  • [20:36 21/05/2004] <@craig> I still get good flow, even after having an insert sucked into the manifold. ;-)
  • [20:36 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> ok.. if there are no more questions, i'll go ahead and open the floor...
  • [20:36 21/05/2004] <Obfishion> Craig, how cool of you to document the entire process so we all could see...Thanks:)
  • [20:36 21/05/2004] <@craig> Thank Ob.. :-)
  • [20:36 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> thank you again craig :-D
  • [20:36 21/05/2004] <JBall> Thanks craig.
  • [20:37 21/05/2004] <Noname> thanks, great job, ^_^
  • [20:37 21/05/2004] <@craig> Even if I did wuss out this time and used copy/paste. ;-D
  • [20:37 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Cool Craig and you made good points on the trial fitting. Funny you found out the hard way :)
  • [20:37 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> lol
  • [20:38 21/05/2004] <JBall> I would like to share so experience
  • [20:38 21/05/2004] <jim> Great job, Craig! What kind of hillstreams do you have in each tank? Its funny, a year ago you could care less about hillstreams, now you have TWO river tanks! You have been assimilated!
  • [20:38 21/05/2004] <@craig> Rule #1, assemble everything dry. :-D
  • [20:38 21/05/2004] <@craig> Fire away JBall.
  • [20:38 21/05/2004] <JBall> I ended up using two manifolds one for each powerhead
  • [20:39 21/05/2004] <@craig> Jim, it wasn't that I didn't care about them. I was just caught up in other loaches at the time.
  • [20:39 21/05/2004] <JBall> I had a PH fail and the flow want from one PH to the other only
  • [20:40 21/05/2004] <@craig> Hillstream list... Hmmm, off the top of my head..
  • [20:40 21/05/2004] <@craig> Beaufortia, cteno's, puncs, l. disparis, h. zollingeri, chenis..
  • [20:40 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> I think your luck with tight fit was the manufacturer's tolerances. I've found some fittings sloppy. I've always glued them.
  • [20:41 21/05/2004] <JBall> now I have two PVC tubes running from a single intake to a single PH to avoid this problem. Now one fails at least flow continues.
  • [20:41 21/05/2004] <@craig> Could be Martin, it might be the PVC is made to stricter tolerances here?
  • [20:41 21/05/2004] <@craig> Good point JBall.
  • [20:42 21/05/2004] <JBall> I also fit them dry no glue
  • [20:42 21/05/2004] <JBall> must be those Canadian standards Martin
  • [20:42 21/05/2004] * @Jessica is glad to hear no glue needed :-D
  • [20:42 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Possibly. In GB I got some nice dark grey stuff, but the elbows were loose whilst the T's were tighter.
  • [20:43 21/05/2004] <jim> I guess I should rephrase things. You were more interested in other loaches, but the hillstreams finally got to you.Are all these hillstreams in the same tank?
  • [20:43 21/05/2004] <@craig> No Jim, they are spread across the two.
  • [20:43 21/05/2004] <jim> Any luck on sexing the chenis?
  • [20:43 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> I've actually never built one here. Shipped my manifolds over with my furniture (River-Tank Nut!)
  • [20:43 21/05/2004] <@craig> I never get to see the underside of mine Jim.
  • [20:44 21/05/2004] <jim> You will
  • [20:44 21/05/2004] <@craig> They are too busy scouring the gravel and sand looking for food. I *do* get to see their dorsal fins a lot tho.
  • [20:44 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Oops forgot. I'm s'posed to be helping you with sexing Craig :)
  • [20:45 21/05/2004] <JBall> Question: with lighting and PH running how are you keeping the temp down. Can't get mine below 80F and the tank is in the basement
  • [20:46 21/05/2004] <@craig> A/C here, my tanks sit at ~76F..
  • [20:46 21/05/2004] <@craig> +/- 1F either way.
  • [20:47 21/05/2004] <@craig> My tanks are also open topped, so I get some evaporative cooling.
  • [20:47 21/05/2004] <Obfishion> Are you going to be adding some other cold water fish besides loaches?
  • [20:47 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Mine too
  • [20:47 21/05/2004] <JBall> with 38 watts of light and two PH your RT remain at room temp?
  • [20:47 21/05/2004] <@craig> I have white cloud mountain minnows in them also.
  • [20:47 21/05/2004] <@craig> Yes JBall.
  • [20:47 21/05/2004] <Obfishion> ahhh nice
  • [20:48 21/05/2004] <@craig> Even have 2 otos in the second rivertank.
  • [20:48 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> i guess my RT is going to be a warm water RT...
  • [20:48 21/05/2004] <@craig> Schisturas will love the RT Jess.
  • [20:48 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Our 65 R/T is 72F with 2 X 802s and 160W of lighting
  • [20:49 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> yup.. they dont seem to mind the higher temps either
  • [20:49 21/05/2004] <@craig> My mahnertis I have relish in playing in the current.
  • [20:49 21/05/2004] <Mark> Mahnertis and A. rubidipinnis make good playmates.
  • [20:49 21/05/2004] <JBall> I have 50 watts on a 20 long with 2 RIO 1100's maybe my PH's suck
  • [20:49 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Mine lived at 90 in an English Summer OK
  • [20:49 21/05/2004] <@craig> The batiks do too, its funny watching them perch on the slate with their heads in the current. Kinda like a dog with its head out the car window. :-D
  • [20:50 21/05/2004] <Mark> Craig - exactly!
  • [20:50 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> thanks martin :-D
  • [20:50 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> I wouldn't think long exposure to 90 is too good tho'
  • [20:50 21/05/2004] <@craig> JBall, I use Aquaclears, maybe they don't run as hot?
  • [20:50 21/05/2004] <jim> Make sure you keep the oxygen level as high as possible
  • [20:51 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> O2, rather than the temp is the critical thing
  • [20:51 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> its pretty much only going to be until the temps start hitting 105 outside and the ac is on more
  • [20:51 21/05/2004] <JBall> Craig, the RIO's pump 400 GPH though
  • [20:51 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> ok
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Little less than an A/C 802 Jill, but not much
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <JBall> MT so you think 80F is OK then?
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <@craig> JBall, on the first rivertank I switched from 201's to one 301 and one 402..
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <Mark> I'm going to go off to work. But thanks, Craig! And Jess as mod. Good show!
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> mark, have a good night :-D
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Bye mark. Did you get my mail?
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <russ> Craig, great presentation. I need to sign off for the eve.
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <JBall> 'night Mark
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <@craig> Take care Russ.
  • [20:52 21/05/2004] <Mark> MT: No, not yet - that's the work.
  • [20:53 21/05/2004] <Mark> Night all!! :-P
  • [20:53 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Hehe!
  • [20:53 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> g'night russ
  • [20:53 21/05/2004] <russ> :-)
  • [20:53 21/05/2004] <@craig> I suppose one of these mornings I should give the hillies a treat.. Its been a while since they have had bloodworms.
  • [20:54 21/05/2004] <jim> Mine get them every day. I think they are spoiled
  • [20:54 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> 80 is a bit up there, but as long as you've got good syrface movement and air (/) then they should be OK
  • [20:54 21/05/2004] <JBall> Tetra Min Tabs seem to be the treat in my RT
  • [20:54 21/05/2004] <JP> Craig, great presentation. Would have said earlier, but I wandered off.
  • [20:54 21/05/2004] <@craig> I've been feeding Omega-One flakes..
  • [20:54 21/05/2004] <@craig> Thanks JP.
  • [20:55 21/05/2004] <jim> I use those two, but not much in the hillstream tanks.
  • [20:55 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> I'm feeding lots now because of the 9 greedy barbs. Brings out the Hillies though
  • [20:55 21/05/2004] <JBall> MT air and surface movement to great. fish seem happy
  • [20:55 21/05/2004] <jim> I mean "too"
  • [20:55 21/05/2004] <@craig> So far so good, everyone chows down heartily on them.
  • [20:56 21/05/2004] <@craig> Even the shrimp, go figure..
  • [20:56 21/05/2004] <JBall> never tried flakes I'll have to do that
  • [20:56 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Everything in my tank eats flake
  • [20:56 21/05/2004] <jim> I'll have to give it a try. The golden white clouds in the first river tank wouldn't let them get to the bottom though :)
  • [20:57 21/05/2004] <@craig> I drop the flakes right at the outflow of the penguin mini, gives them an extra shove towards the bottom..
  • [20:57 21/05/2004] <jim> I tend to feed earthworm and spirulina pellets as well as bloodworms
  • [20:58 21/05/2004] <JBall> Jim this is the 2nd time this week I heard about earthworm pellets where do you get 'em
  • [20:58 21/05/2004] <jim> They seem to like OSI Nibblers and Spirulina tablets. I found them on sale in Indy a while back.
  • [20:58 21/05/2004] <@craig> I have the entire line of Hikari frozen stuff here.. So far the faves are bloodworms and tubifex worms.
  • [20:59 21/05/2004] <@craig> Brine shrimp goes over well too..
  • [20:59 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> I use Brine Shrimp as well as B/W
  • [20:59 21/05/2004] <jim> I used to order them at Aquaricare.com but bought my last batch at an Aquarium club meeting
  • [20:59 21/05/2004] <JBall> thanks
  • [20:59 21/05/2004] <@craig> The l. disparis likes algae wafers too.
  • [21:00 21/05/2004] <jim> He and the chenis would like a par-boiled spinach leaf now and then, too :)
  • [21:00 21/05/2004] <jim> How big is he now?
  • [21:01 21/05/2004] <@craig> Inch and a half or so, haven't really measured him..
  • [21:01 21/05/2004] <jim> I am still looking for one
  • [21:01 21/05/2004] <JBall> When is the Hillstream Loach Convention?
  • [21:01 21/05/2004] <@craig> Next time he's bumping heads with the beaus on the glass I'll measure him.
  • [21:02 21/05/2004] <jim> I wish there was a convention :)
  • [21:02 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Thought this was it! ;)
  • [21:02 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> could be fun :-)
  • [21:02 21/05/2004] <jim> Martin, how are the newbies doing?
  • [21:02 21/05/2004] <@craig> The most active proponents for hillstreams do seem to be here. ;-)
  • [21:02 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Great. Got 3 more ctenos tonight :)
  • [21:03 21/05/2004] <JBall> MT send some of those centos to me
  • [21:03 21/05/2004] <JBall> oops I mean ctenos
  • [21:03 21/05/2004] <jim> It will be interesting to compare them with your unknown species.
  • [21:03 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Come to Toronto. Theres freakin' loads of them!
  • [21:03 21/05/2004] <@craig> I'll drive two hours, but not that far. ;-D
  • [21:04 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> :)
  • [21:04 21/05/2004] <jim> Got three more, huh? :D
  • [21:04 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> martin..
  • [21:04 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Now it's 6 cyenos and 3 ridens
  • [21:04 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> errr....ctenos ;)
  • [21:04 21/05/2004] <@craig> So, Jim/Martin, what should my next chase be?
  • [21:04 21/05/2004] <jim> I knew you couldn't resist :)
  • [21:05 21/05/2004] <JBall> puncs
  • [21:05 21/05/2004] <JBall> puncs
  • [21:05 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Sewllia lineolata.race you!
  • [21:05 21/05/2004] <@craig> Got'em JBall, 3 of them. :-)
  • [21:05 21/05/2004] <JBall> u suk
  • [21:05 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> lol
  • [21:05 21/05/2004] <@craig> Thank you. :-D
  • [21:05 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> TYPO.Sewellia
  • [21:06 21/05/2004] <@craig> Altho, I would like to have another cteno or two..
  • [21:06 21/05/2004] <JBall> how do these hillies get to Indy and are not in NJ
  • [21:06 21/05/2004] <jim> I would recommend Psuedogastromyzon fasciatus if they ever come around again or one of the "lizard cats" like H. tweedei or H. smithi.
  • [21:06 21/05/2004] <jim> Indiana is the hillstream capital of the US.:)
  • [21:07 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Agree fasciatus are really nice
  • [21:07 21/05/2004] <JBall> I assume some of them need to pass the east coast b4 the mid west
  • [21:07 21/05/2004] <jim> I have two, but have not seen them for two or three years. At that time they were all over. Now Sewellia! That would be a find!
  • [21:07 21/05/2004] <@craig> Yessiree, fasciatus are nice looking..
  • [21:08 21/05/2004] <jim> Orthos would be nice too. I've only seen them once though
  • [21:08 21/05/2004] <jim> I had two for a bit
  • [21:08 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> Ken Childs tells me that they are trying to get Vietnamese stuff in
  • [21:09 21/05/2004] <jim> JBall, you may have to go to Uncle Ned's in Mass to get some.
  • [21:09 21/05/2004] <@craig> Jim, where can I find a pic of the h. smithi?
  • [21:09 21/05/2004] <jim> Bob's loach gallery has some pics of the ones I used to have. Do you have that link?
  • [21:10 21/05/2004] <@craig> Yep. somewhere around here..
  • [21:10 21/05/2004] <jim> Check the hillstream breeding section
  • [21:10 21/05/2004] <JBall> I called Ned a couple of wweks ago, no luck. I grew up in MA and am there every two weeks on business. no probelm making the stop
  • [21:10 21/05/2004] <jim> They always have had them when I have been there in October
  • [21:11 21/05/2004] <@craig> Back to Indiana and hillstreams...
  • [21:11 21/05/2004] <JBall> guess I'll wait for the fall
  • [21:11 21/05/2004] <@craig> Doesn't Doug use a supplier up in Chicago for his?
  • [21:11 21/05/2004] <jim> My last smithi, which was three years or so old, died a few months ago. I want another myself
  • [21:12 21/05/2004] <JBall> OK wife just gave me the "take me to bed or loose me for ever" look. G'nite
  • [21:12 21/05/2004] <jim> Yes, I think so. Ken Childs is trying to get some gastros to him.
  • [21:12 21/05/2004] <@craig> Take care JBall. Thanks for coming.
  • [21:12 21/05/2004] <jim> Through a Chicago supplier
  • [21:12 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> ou an' me both
  • [21:13 21/05/2004] <jim> Keep your fingers crossed, Craig...and Martin
  • [21:13 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> three :-)
  • [21:13 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> You and me both JBall. Momfish needs my attention, so goodbye all. T'was fun as usual! :)
  • [21:13 21/05/2004] <@craig> I'm doing that right now in the hopes that my 210 will finally arrive at AW tuesday..
  • [21:13 21/05/2004] <@craig> Later Martin!
  • [21:13 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> thanks for coming martin. have a good night and weekend
  • [21:13 21/05/2004] <jim> I need to go to. Its been a LOOOOOONg day!!
  • [21:14 21/05/2004] <@craig> See ya Jim!
  • [21:14 21/05/2004] <+MT-ED> U2 Jess
  • [21:14 21/05/2004] <@Jessica> have a good one jim :-)
  • [21:14 21/05/2004] <jim> You too Jess...and everyone else


 

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