Chat transcripts

[20:03 07/05/2004] <@craig> Good evening everyone!
[20:03 07/05/2004] <@craig> Welcome to this weeks installment of Live! Fishchat!
[20:04 07/05/2004] <@craig> Tonight, Samantha will be speaking on Frontosas.
[20:04 07/05/2004] <@craig> Sam, when ever you are ready, please being.
[20:04 07/05/2004] <@craig> begin too, please. :-D
[20:04 07/05/2004] <@samantha> lol, okay, thank you Craig :)
[20:04 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Hey everybody, tonight I'm here to talk about frontosa. When signing up to give this chat, I immediately knew to speak about frontosa, quite possibly my favorite fish.
[20:06 07/05/2004] <@samantha> My intentions tonight were to try to explain what it is about frontosa that I can't resist, what makes them such a neat fish in my eyes, rather than write up all of the details on their care.
[20:07 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I want to make you guys interested in the fish, and give a basic background on them, and hopefully you'll be interested enough to want to learn more about them later.
[20:07 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Cyphotilapia frontosa are amongst the most popular cichlids from Lake Tanganyika.
[20:08 07/05/2004] <@samantha> A pic of a front - http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/frontosa.jpg
[20:08 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Obtaining lengths of up to 14 inches, they require a large tank! Many people will say that a 55 is adequate for one front, but I believe a 75 is better, as it has more room from front to back. If keeping a colony, consider a 125 to be the minimum.
[20:09 07/05/2004] <@samantha> A sandy substrate is ideal, as I have observed them sifting through sand and digging.
[20:10 07/05/2004] <@samantha> These fish require a typical Lake Tanganyika set up, with a pH of 8.0 to 8.6 and very hard and alkaline water.
[20:10 07/05/2004] <@samantha> It is best to provide plenty of caves. Rocks, clay pots, and pvc work well.
[20:11 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Frontosa need a diet high in protein, as their diet in nature consists of smaller fish.
[20:12 07/05/2004] <@samantha> To see more photos of frontosa, click here and select Tanganyika Frontosa from the drop down menu. This gallery shows photos of the several different variants of frontosa. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/photogallery/
[20:13 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I remember the first time I saw a front. He'd been traded in to the lfs, as he'd outgrown his home.
[20:13 07/05/2004] <@samantha> He was about 14 inches total length. His size, his fins, the hump on his forehead, he was so very impressive. I was in awe.
[20:14 07/05/2004] <@samantha> He swam with such grace and serenity.
[20:14 07/05/2004] <@samantha> While having such a 'mean' and 'grumpy' look to him, he also gave the impression of a very gentle giant. It was as if he wasn't aware of his size and beauty, he was rather shy and reserved.
[20:14 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I fell in love, right there. I knew that one day, I had to have one.
[20:15 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I have never been so intrigued with a fish; I could just stand there in the lfs and watch him all day.
[20:15 07/05/2004] <@samantha> The store owner knew me, and knew my habit of falling for a fish, saying "oh, no, I shouldn't," and then showing up a week later to buy the fish, as I couldn't get it off my mind. It didn't happen with the frontosa, I knew I couldn't provide properly for him, as my largest tank at the time was a 20 gallon.
[20:15 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I read and read, and dreamt and dreamt. I couldn't get him off my mind, and I frequently went back to the store to look at the fronts.
[20:16 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Each time, the owner would make a remark like "should I bag one? You know you want one."
[20:17 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Finally, after the purchase of a 55 gallon tank (and yes, a larger tank is in the very near future), I went to the lfs. I remember standing there for ages, staring at a tank of fronts labeled as the mpimbwe variant, each about 2 inches long.
[20:17 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Finally, I was taking one home. The store owner said "you know Sam, it's about time." I had never been so excited about a new fish. He was so fascinating.
[20:18 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Provided with lots of rocks and caves, he's always seemed pretty secure in my tank. When he hides in his caves, he peeks out a few times before coming out, hence his name "Boo."
[20:18 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Though typically very slow moving and calm, when spooked they tend to be very swift and clumsy. It is important to provide caves for them to feel safe, but make sure décor is secure and doesn't have sharp edges, as they may be reckless when they spook.
[20:19 07/05/2004] <@samantha> His tankmates include one male electric blue hap, a trio of pseudotropheus acei, a pseudotropheus demasoni, and a lone labidochromis caeruleus. While no, this is not the most ideal situation due to different dietary requirements, it is working for me, for now.
[20:19 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I offer a good variety of foods, and he seems to prefer sinking foods to floating. Flakes worked well when he was smaller, he is about six inches now and really does better with pellets. Sometimes I offer krill, though I have to be careful to keep it from the mbuna.
[20:20 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Trying to describe his behavior and personality isn't easy. My words don't do him any justice. Fronts are so peaceful, it's really relaxing to watch them. They're just very majestic
[20:21 07/05/2004] <@samantha> My front almost behaves like my cat, he's shy initially, but very friendly once he's used to you. He has on several occasions let me stroke his forehead, and feed him by hand.
[20:22 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I hope that next time you see frontosa at the lfs, you stop and watch them.
[20:22 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Observe their peaceful behavior, the grace with which they swim, the beauty of their color and stripes and fins.
[20:22 07/05/2004] <@samantha> For more detailed information, I recommend cichlid-forum, I think it is a very good resource. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/frontosa_corner.php
[20:23 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Thanks everybody for listening tonight, and I hope that this has sparked your interest in this fascinating cichlid.
[20:23 07/05/2004] <@craig> Sam, thanks for a very personal view of these fish.
[20:24 07/05/2004] <@craig> Anyone have any questions?
[20:24 07/05/2004] <@samantha> :)
[20:24 07/05/2004] <@craig> If you do please type: /query craig I have a question
[20:25 07/05/2004] <@craig> Sam, if I may ask..
[20:25 07/05/2004] <@samantha> go for it...
[20:26 07/05/2004] <@craig> What is the one thing that really makes fronts the fish to keep for you?
[20:28 07/05/2004] <@samantha> That's a good question, Craig. Something I wanted to address but didn't really manage to. My first fish were mbuna, and I love them, I honestly do, but the level of activity is a bit too much to watch when I just want to relax. I love that I can just sit and watch Boo, and he is so at peace, in the midst of all that chaos. Fronts look so tough and powerful, yet they are so mellow.
[20:29 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Eventually I'd like a tank just for a colony of fronts, the simplicity is so appealing.
[20:30 07/05/2004] <@craig> Do they show the level of interaction that most cichlids do? As in follow your movements when you approach the tank?
[20:31 07/05/2004] <@samantha> absolutely. I approach the tank, and he comes out to see me, while he may hide if a new person comes to the tank
[20:32 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I love the way he watches me, it might sound silly, but it's almost like he's talking to me when he just stares at me
[20:32 07/05/2004] <@craig> Do you see any aggressive tendencies in them?
[20:32 07/05/2004] <@samantha> very very rarely, and I would use the term territorial instead of aggressive. usually just if another fish tries to share his cave
[20:33 07/05/2004] <@samantha> but even then, he's still a pretty laid back fish
[20:33 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> have you had the chance to see a colony? i'm curious how their bahaviour differs there.
[20:34 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I have, but only a couple of times, and I didn't get to observe them as much as I'd like to. I have heard that the alpha male is typically the most shy, and is usually the one hiding, which I think is interesting
[20:36 07/05/2004] <@craig> Sam, again, thank you for being here, please accept my sincere thanks for spending a bit of your day with us..
[20:37 07/05/2004] <@samantha> thanks for having me :)
[20:37 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> sam, it was truly lovely, even if we didn't have many questions, thanks for sharing like you did
[20:37 07/05/2004] <@samantha> thank you :)
[20:38 07/05/2004] <@craig> Russ, please ask your question.
[20:38 07/05/2004] <+russ> Sam, that was a great presentation. It's good to hear personal experiences about fish. more...
[20:40 07/05/2004] <+russ> I have also kept Frons but have not kept up with them for a while. I was wondering if collection techniques have changed mush over the years since they had to go through decompression in the past.
[20:40 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I'm pretty sure it's still the same Russ, in fact I've heard it's even more of an issue with the Zaires as they are deeper in the lake
[20:41 07/05/2004] <+russ> thanks, thats what I suspected
[20:42 07/05/2004] <@craig> Ready for the open discussion folks?
[20:42 07/05/2004] <@samantha> sounds good to me
[20:42 07/05/2004] <+russ> :-)
[20:42 07/05/2004] <@craig> The floor is open..
[20:42 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> applause :-D
[20:43 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> whistling
[20:43 07/05/2004] <JP> Sam... :F for a great presentation.
[20:43 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Thank you all very much for coming tonight and listening to what I had to say :)
[20:43 07/05/2004] * JP holds up a lighter.
[20:43 07/05/2004] <megan> great job sam :D
[20:43 07/05/2004] <@samantha> thank you :)
[20:43 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> sam, seriously, once again, thanks, the personal twist is awesome
[20:43 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I'm glad you thought so :)
[20:44 07/05/2004] * @Jessica is thinking of using that method next time she's in the hot seat
[20:44 07/05/2004] <JP> It's how my Oscar chat is written.. ;)
[20:44 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> excellent :-)
[20:45 07/05/2004] <@samantha> well... I thought that if I tried to convey why I fell in love with them, then that might be a more effective way to get others interested, rather than just supply care details
[20:46 07/05/2004] <russ> thats seems to have worked very well
[20:46 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> sam, you triggered memories of when i drooled over fronts :-)
[20:46 07/05/2004] <@samantha> lol Jess
[20:46 07/05/2004] <@craig> Sam, what you did was bring the side of why we really keep fish into play, which in my eyes is better than technical details.
[20:46 07/05/2004] * @Jessica did, then she found out they got big :-D
[20:46 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Thank you Craig, I'm really glad you see it that way
[20:47 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I know it took seeing Boo in person for Andrew to understand why I appreciated fronts the way I do
[20:48 07/05/2004] <@craig> As for me with my clown loaches, I know how it feels, ya just gotta smile when you see them happy and out playing.
[20:48 07/05/2004] <@samantha> exactly :)
[20:48 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> indeed...
[20:48 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> my botias... leptobotia too...
[20:48 07/05/2004] <@samantha> It's been fun watching him grow, and he's still just a little guy
[20:48 07/05/2004] <@craig> There is the rub, do we keep fish, or do we enjoy them for what they are?
[20:49 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> both, i think...
[20:49 07/05/2004] <@samantha> enjoy em, if I didn't, I wouldn't be in the hobby
[20:49 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> lol
[20:49 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> true
[20:49 07/05/2004] <@samantha> though jess is right too...
[20:50 07/05/2004] <@craig> I'll be the first to admit to the collector mindset, but in the long run, its watching them that counts..
[20:50 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> lol
[20:50 07/05/2004] <@craig> How many times have I been distracted because of my fish?
[20:50 07/05/2004] <@samantha> and I've had my days, where I swear I just can't do it anymore, but when it comes down to it, Boo is the first thing I go to when I get home from work...
[20:50 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> its been so nice, these past few days i've had the opportunity to just watch
[20:50 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> no pressure that i should be doing anything else...
[20:50 07/05/2004] <@samantha> i need to do a lot more watching.... great stress relief
[20:51 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> it is
[20:51 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> as far as the collecter's mindset.. i had a hard time walking away from a loach this afternoon ;-D seems if it says loach, im in danger...
[20:52 07/05/2004] <@samantha> lol
[20:52 07/05/2004] <@craig> Folks, please don't be afraid to join in, this is your time, speak up please.
[20:52 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> but so far, i have not been dissapointed
[20:52 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> for example the leptobotias, those guys are curiousity personified...
[20:53 07/05/2004] <@craig> Wait until you get the schisturas in a rivertank Jess. :-)
[20:53 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> the Schistura balteata with their surprising color...
[20:53 07/05/2004] <JP> Watching the fish relieves stress you say? I get stressed when I look at mine.
[20:53 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> craig, they're raring to go already.. lol
[20:53 07/05/2004] <JP> ;)
[20:53 07/05/2004] <@samantha> lol JP...
[20:53 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> jp, lol
[20:53 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> the schisturas have only hit the tank top once since you started talking sam ;-)
[20:54 07/05/2004] <@samantha> hehe
[20:55 07/05/2004] <russ> Hmmm, this discussion about Frons's has made me want to get my 58gal repaired(ah, replaced) :-)
[20:55 07/05/2004] <@samantha> that's the idea :)
[20:55 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> i wouldnt be surprised if more people stare at fronts, tho, sam.. I saw Zaires when i was setting up my 55, and was rather excited to think i could have such pretty fish..
[20:56 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I haven't even seen Zaires yet, in real life anyway...
[20:56 07/05/2004] <JP> People are setting tanks up, I'm taking them down. Sheesh.
[20:56 07/05/2004] <russ> Sam, what are 6 and 7 stripers selling for out there?
[20:57 07/05/2004] <@Nigel> sam - cool talk - many thanks (i gotta bail now :-D) - cya's all tomorrow :-D
[20:57 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> good night nigel
[20:57 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I paid 60 for Boo, who is actually a Karilani, not a mpimbwe... a burundi goes for about 40... 7s I'm not sure about, I haven't seen any recently. and I'm referrring to a 2-3 inch fish with these prices, smaller ones (about an inch) are less of course
[20:57 07/05/2004] <@samantha> night nigel :) thank you
[20:58 07/05/2004] * @Nigel waves to all - sleep well :-D
[20:58 07/05/2004] <russ> take care
[20:58 07/05/2004] <@samantha> eh-heh, I know...
[20:59 07/05/2004] <@craig> Not so Russ, I have paid more than that per inch for smaller fish..
[20:59 07/05/2004] <@samantha> we are severly lacking in the good lfs'... and the ones that are nice, are pricey
[20:59 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> angelicus?
[20:59 07/05/2004] <JP> At a local shop near me they have what looks to be a 125 with like 10 fronts in it ranging from3 inches to a foot. It's neat to watch.
[20:59 07/05/2004] <@craig> Sids..
[20:59 07/05/2004] <russ> sometimes you just can't put a price on something that is personally priceless ;-)
[20:59 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Russ, I couldn't put it any better :)
[20:59 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> :-D
[20:59 07/05/2004] <@craig> And that is it..
[20:59 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> yup
[21:00 07/05/2004] <@craig> Is it tuesday yet?
[21:00 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> no dear
[21:00 07/05/2004] <@craig> Hrmph..
[21:00 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> :-)
[21:00 07/05/2004] <@samantha> I love my loaches quite a bit as well, the angelicus are wonderful. worth every dime
[21:00 07/05/2004] <@samantha> imo, you fall in love with a fish like that, and you don't really notice the price
[21:00 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> :-)
[21:01 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> and getting larger groups of them.. awesome... i'm kinda jealous for craig's 33 sids in a 75...
[21:01 07/05/2004] <@craig> I know Sam, as far as loaches go, clowns are first, but I am totally engrossed in sids..
[21:01 07/05/2004] <@samantha> yea that sounds really awesome, I've never seen sids here
[21:01 07/05/2004] <russ> Sam, again, great presentation...I gotta go folks... Have a good weekend and I'll catch
you later :-)
[21:01 07/05/2004] <@samantha> Thanks Russ, take care
[21:01 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> good night russ
[21:01 07/05/2004] <@craig> See ya Russ.
[21:01 07/05/2004] <megan> goodnight russ :)
[21:02 07/05/2004] <@samantha> the angelicus were my first loaches, so...
[21:02 07/05/2004] <@samantha> <3
[21:02 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> ?
[21:02 07/05/2004] <@samantha> heart...
[21:02 07/05/2004] <@craig> Welp folks, lets take this back to #badmanschat. :-)
[21:03 07/05/2004] * @craig has to edit this ya know. ;-)
[21:03 07/05/2004] <@samantha> lol
[21:03 07/05/2004] <@Jessica> suure.. you know you don't edit it :-D