- [6:06:49 PM:] <Nigel> Hi all,
- [6:06:49 PM:] <Nigel> welcome (again) to fishchat.
- [6:06:49 PM:] <Nigel> Tonight's speaker is Craig... not about
loaches - all hail - well - not *all* about loaches....
- [6:06:50 PM:] <Nigel> Listen to the man - he talks some sense
- well sometimes anyway -
- [6:06:50 PM:] <Nigel> usual rules /bug craig - i have a question
- [6:06:50 PM:] <Nigel> that should get you start
- [6:07:24 PM:] <craig> I suppose that is my cue? ;-)
- [6:07:32 PM:] <Jessica> sounds like it ;-)
- [6:07:35 PM:] <Nigel> you want the thick end? ;-D
- [6:08:15 PM:] <craig> Good evening everyone, tonight I will
be talking about some of my experiences since I started keeping fish.
- [6:08:37 PM:] <craig> Please pardon the random nature tonight,
this isn't scripted but off the top of my head.
- [6:09:18 PM:] <craig> When I was young, about 5 or 6, my parents
each had a tank of their own.
- [6:09:43 PM:] <craig> Mom's had a pink kissing gourami, a
common pleco and a few black mollies.
- [6:10:21 PM:] <craig> Dad's tank had one curmugeonly old jack
dempsey in it that spent as much time on the floor and he did in the
- [6:11:35 PM:] <craig> The tanks went by the wayside after
my parents split up and I didn't revisit the hobby for some 30 years..
- [6:12:19 PM:] <craig> About 6 years ago my sister decided
she no longer wanted the 10 gallon tank she had and asked my mother
if she would like to have it.
- [6:13:00 PM:] <craig> Of course the answer was yes, so the
10 gallon tank and its occupants came to the house.
- [6:13:56 PM:] <craig> I don't recall exactly what was in that
tank, except for two fish. A pink kisser and a common pleco.
- [6:14:26 PM:] <craig> Which to regulars on Badmans fish boards
know, have come to be known as pinkie and the monster pleco.
- [6:15:45 PM:] <craig> Then mom and my nephew decided a 10
gallon tank was not big enough....The trip to WallyWorld ensued shortly
- [6:16:47 PM:] <craig> Sitting at my laptop computer one morning
I hear the sounds of cursing coming from the front door as my nephew
wrestles the 55 gallon starter kit in the house.
- [6:17:20 PM:] <craig> Since I still wasn't too sure of the
idea, I stayed out of it and let him get it setup.
- [6:17:48 PM:] <craig> He did a good job, except for one thing,
he let mom pick the gravel. :-D
- [6:18:59 PM:] <craig> When all was said and done we had a
pretty bare looking 55 gallon tank with blue and white gravel, pinkie,
the monster pleco and a trio of red velvet swordtails.
- [6:19:26 PM:] <craig> After watching my nephew for a few weeks,
the strangest thing happened...
- [6:19:39 PM:] <craig> I started to get interested in these
- [6:20:22 PM:] <craig> Mom went out and got some (no moaning
from the crowd here) "berry" tetras..
- [6:21:07 PM:] <craig> Pinkie wasn't looking too happy, what
with the white spots all over his tail.
- [6:21:32 PM:] <craig> So, the first ich battle started.
- [6:21:50 PM:] <craig> We were lucky, and I do mean lucky since
we had NO idea what we were doing.
- [6:22:12 PM:] <craig> Everyone survived.
- [6:23:20 PM:] <craig> In that time my interest in fish really
started to peak. I did what any self-respecting computer geek would
do, I ran to the laptop and started Googling..
- [6:23:56 PM:] <craig> The first hit I got was this place called
Badman's Tropical Fish.
- [6:24:35 PM:] <craig> I got lucky that day, without even hitting
the "I'm feeling lucky" button on Googles search page.
- [6:25:50 PM:] <craig> I ran into a bunch of folks that really
cared about fish; Pandora, Kick and Joyce Donley.
- [6:26:24 PM:] <craig> They pointed me to the same links that
you see just about everyday on the messsage boards there..
- [6:26:48 PM:] <craig> One in particular got my interest: http://www.thekrib.com/
- [6:27:01 PM:] <craig> I like to read and that place was a
- [6:27:31 PM:] <craig> Before long, I was hooked..
- [6:27:43 PM:] <craig> Literally..
- [6:28:39 PM:] <craig> I liked neon's, but since I was afraid
of cardinals I found black neon tetras and brought a six pack of them
- [6:29:46 PM:] <craig> The "berry" tetras looked
lonely but I had learned about them being "painted" fish
which were actually white skirt tetras I got 3 of them.
- [6:30:32 PM:] <craig> Things stayed pretty calm on the fish
front until one day while I was perusing the tanks at the local PetsMart...
- [6:31:06 PM:] <craig> I came across a tank that had these
wonderful little creatures that were named "Clown Loaches".
- [6:31:57 PM:] <craig> I *had* to have them, I bought two..
What little did I know then. :-D
- [6:32:50 PM:] <craig> They did okay for about a month in the
55 but just didn't seem happy.
- [6:33:02 PM:] <craig> Off to Google I go again..
- [6:33:28 PM:] <craig> Where the second biggest find in my
fish keeping career came along... Loaches OnLine.
- [6:34:11 PM:] <craig> The folks there told me about the need
for them to be kept in groups of 3 or better.. Back off to PetsMart
- [6:34:27 PM:] <craig> One more clown loach comes home.
- [6:35:01 PM:] <craig> Then, and this is where the addiction
begins, I decide its time for a bigger tank for the clown loaches..
- [6:35:48 PM:] <craig> After some negotiating with the other
members of the household, it is decided that I can get a 75 gallon
- [6:36:04 PM:] <craig> (If I let them have 1, which became
- [6:36:52 PM:] <craig> Off to PetsMart we go again, full wallet
and some new found fish knowledge in hand..
- [6:37:26 PM:] <craig> After about a half hour and an empty
wallet later, I'm on my way home with a 75 gallon tank, stand and
all the trimmings.
- [6:38:20 PM:] <craig> Tank setup was pretty boring as nothing
ot of the ordinary happened..
- [6:39:02 PM:] <craig> I initially cycled it with a bunch of
- [6:39:45 PM:] <craig> I didn't wait long enough though, I
still didn't have the smarts I thought I did. Mom wanted angels, so
I went out and bought the biggest two I could find.
- [6:40:18 PM:] <craig> Shortly after that, the clown loaches
moved into the 75 and the battle with ich started all over again..
- [6:41:20 PM:] <craig> This time I didn't get so lucky, it
took 2 months to fight through it. I lost a total of 11 clown loaches
to it and various tank ornament distasters.
- [6:41:46 PM:] <craig> Yes, I was a clown loach serial killer.
- [6:42:24 PM:] <craig> However, that 2 months shaped what I
was to become as a fish keeper.
- [6:42:32 PM:] <craig> I was addicted to loaches.
- [6:43:10 PM:] <craig> You see, those folks on Loaches OnLine
are passionate about their loaches and it rubbed off, in a BIG way.
- [6:44:25 PM:] <craig> Somewhere in the middle of the time
above I also started frequenting the local fish store here in town...
- [6:44:56 PM:] <craig> I ran into a guy name Jim Powers on
Loaches OnLine and found out he visited the same LFS that I did.
- [6:45:45 PM:] <craig> I started buying up all the loaches
the LFS could get in and begged for more..
- [6:46:16 PM:] <craig> Clown loaches, yoyo loaches, kuhli loaches,
dojo loaches, the list goes on and on..
- [6:46:36 PM:] <craig> I tried my hand at hillstream loaches
and failed miserably the first time.
- [6:48:00 PM:] <craig> I read Martin Thoene's (sorry if I spelled
it wrong!) article on hillstreams until I could almost recite it forwards
and backwards in my sleep. I waited a year or so, then after a chat
here from Martin I made the plunge again.
- [6:48:26 PM:] <craig> I got my first rivertank up and running..
- [6:48:53 PM:] <craig> Yes, the addiction begins anew..
- [6:49:23 PM:] <craig> Jim was on the alert, every time a fascinating
new hillstream came along he let me know.
- [6:50:08 PM:] <craig> I once drove 300 miles round trip to
pick up a pair of fish, if that isn't getting a fish fix, I'm not
sure what is.
- [6:51:07 PM:] <craig> It wasn't long afterwards that the second
rivertank was built, as the first one was getting crowded.
- [6:51:36 PM:] <craig> It didn't take long to fill that one
up either. ;-)
- [6:52:39 PM:] <craig> That more less tells the condensed version
of some of my tanks. There were 4 that I left out and I didn't talk
at all about my sids who eventually took over the 75.
- [6:53:16 PM:] <craig> I've babbled enough for one evening,
if there's anything I left out that you'd like to know, please ask.
- [6:54:03 PM:] <Martin> Question Craig. Will you ever forgive
- [6:54:10 PM:] <craig> Had I told the story about the other
4 tanks, I'd be late for work tonight. ;-)
- [6:54:20 PM:] <craig> Martin, no, its ALL your fault. :-D
- [6:54:26 PM:] <Jessica> lol
- [6:54:32 PM:] <Jessica> he loves, it though ;-)
- [6:54:33 PM:] <Kimrin> darn and I was going ask you to go
- [6:54:36 PM:] <Martin> Oh I'm glad!
- [6:54:52 PM:] <russ> That was great Craig:-) You made me look
up the word curmugeonly though;-)
- [6:55:06 PM:] <craig> Martin, did I spell your last name right?
- [6:55:13 PM:] <Roxanne> that was really good Craig! :)
- [6:55:18 PM:] <Martin> Oh by the way mate, you got my name
right, which is better than people I work with
- [6:55:26 PM:] <craig> *phew*
- [6:56:40 PM:] <Nigel> he does pretty good for winging it :-D
- [6:56:51 PM:] <Martin> Addiction is a terrible thing. Admitting
you have a problem is the first step. Next step is setting up another
- [6:56:52 PM:] <craig> I should have written some notes. ;-)
- [6:57:20 PM:] <Jessica> LOL marting
- [6:57:24 PM:] <Jessica> -g
- [6:57:29 PM:] <Jessica> or setting up a larger one? ;-D
- [6:58:03 PM:] <craig> 3 of the 5 amano shrimp I put in the
first rivertank survived. :-)
- [6:58:05 PM:] <Betsy> I have always found loaches to resemble
worms/snakes. Are you fond of snakes as well?
- [6:58:25 PM:] <Jessica> craig, :-D
- [6:58:32 PM:] <craig> Betsy, yes, but if I brought one in
the house, the resulting melee wouldn't be pretty. :-)
- [6:58:43 PM:] <Kimrin> amano shrimp live in river tanks?
- [6:59:15 PM:] <Martin> Jessica, you have wood shrimp right?
- [6:59:16 PM:] <craig> Kim, I have 5 in one of my rivertanks
and 3 in the other.
- [6:59:20 PM:] <Jessica> yes, martin
- [6:59:32 PM:] <Jessica> he molted 2 nights ago
- [6:59:34 PM:] <craig> I put 5 in the other one, but the schisturas
thought they were tasty.
- [6:59:42 PM:] <Martin> My LFS has Rhino Shrimp....pretty cute
- [6:59:57 PM:] <Kimrin> lol, where do they live normally, marshes?
- [6:59:57 PM:] <Jessica> they a variety of the flower/wood/bamboo?
- [7:00:20 PM:] <craig> Kim, you know, I honestly can't tell
- [7:00:27 PM:] <Martin> Not sure. Males have a sort of horn
on the nose
- [7:00:35 PM:] <Betsy> the loaches get along okay with the
shrimp? I thought they were bottom dwelling fishes, and that they
would get annoyed with critters running around down there.
- [7:00:57 PM:] <craig> Betsy, you would surprised at how fast
a shrimp can move.
- [7:00:59 PM:] <Kimrin> yeah, it just occurred to me too, I
ought to have seen that somewher....
- [7:01:11 PM:] <Jessica> only times there's problems is when
loaches want to eat the shrimp
- [7:01:18 PM:] <craig> Especially with a frisky loach on its
- [7:01:19 PM:] <Jessica> hmm, how big, martin?
- [7:01:45 PM:] <Kimrin> they still remind me of insects
- [7:01:47 PM:] <Martin> 'bout 3/4"
- [7:02:16 PM:] <Kimrin> one molted today, I am pretty grossed
- [7:02:29 PM:] <Jessica> http://www.azgardens.com/images/shrimp_C.%20gracilirostris%2020%20.jpg
- [7:02:35 PM:] <Jessica> like that guy, martin?
- [7:02:46 PM:] <craig> Amano, algae eating shrimp or Caradina
Japonica do have their uses. Even if they do look like bugs.
- [7:02:51 PM:] <Betsy> do the other fish eat shrimp skins after
- [7:03:28 PM:] <Kimrin> i pulled one out but another one disappppeared
- [7:03:32 PM:] <Betsy> eew Jess- it's clear.
- [7:03:54 PM:] <Betsy> How repulsive. I would never want other
people to see my guts all the time.
- [7:04:01 PM:] <Kimrin> Oh, I gotta say they did one hell of
a job on the diatoms all over the plants
- [7:04:20 PM:] <craig> That's what they are good for Kim. ;-)
- [7:04:39 PM:] <Kimrin> does anyone have those cherry shrimp
they sell at AZ Gardens?
- [7:04:41 PM:] <craig> They've been doing an excellent job
of stemming the growth of BGA too.
- [7:04:52 PM:] <Jessica> kim, i've killed many :-(
- [7:04:57 PM:] <Kimrin> whats BGA again?
- [7:05:08 PM:] <russ> they are great little detritavores:-)
- [7:05:09 PM:] <Kimrin> OH Jess... :)
- [7:05:14 PM:] <craig> Blue green algae aka cyanobacteria.
- [7:05:21 PM:] <Kimrin> ok
- [7:05:25 PM:] <Martin> Yucky stuff
- [7:05:37 PM:] <Kimrin> I'm starting to get beard algae in
my planted tank
- [7:05:46 PM:] <Kimrin> at least I think that's what it is
- [7:05:53 PM:] <Martin> Craig, you said you like reading, correct?
- [7:06:00 PM:] <craig> Yep.
- [7:06:09 PM:] <Kimrin> purplish blackish geenish tufts
- [7:06:17 PM:] * craig thinks he sees a hook coming for proofreading..
- [7:06:31 PM:] <Martin> There's a certain book we want you
to read once the full text is finished. You up for that?
- [7:06:37 PM:] <Jessica> martin.. mark already signed both
of us up..
- [7:06:41 PM:] <Kimrin> Jessica are the cherry shrimp delicate?
- [7:06:43 PM:] <Jessica> dunno if craig know this, though
- [7:06:46 PM:] <Jessica> very, kim
- [7:07:03 PM:] <Martin> Excellent, 'cos I was going to suggest
Jess as another anyway!
- [7:07:07 PM:] <Jessica> LOL
- [7:07:21 PM:] <craig> I'm up for it Martin, it just depends
on what I have going on at the time the first proof is ready.
- [7:07:33 PM:] <Jessica> we're supposed to print it out to
proof it, craig btw ;-)
- [7:08:00 PM:] <Martin> We're really very close. I finished
my edits today. Mark is probably finishing up right now
- [7:08:02 PM:] <Nigel> LOL - printer set up could bork stuff
then - do it as pdf?
- [7:08:05 PM:] <craig> Does that mean I have to get non-dried
up printer cartridges?
- [7:08:20 PM:] <Jessica> nigel. why? its just a rough draft
- [7:08:21 PM:] <Kimrin> hey is this a loach book?
- [7:08:38 PM:] <Kimrin> this is the second time I've heard
you talking about it
- [7:08:39 PM:] <Martin> 120 pages Craig, get a new cartridge!
- [7:08:47 PM:] * Jessica using work printer
- [7:08:50 PM:] <Jessica> they owe me ;-)
- [7:08:54 PM:] <Martin> Theif!
- [7:09:04 PM:] <Nigel> pdf sets it - can be printed as an image
- [7:09:16 PM:] <Jessica> nigel.. its a rough draft
- [7:09:24 PM:] <craig> We'll get to that Nigel, leave the horse
behind cart. ;-D
- [7:09:26 PM:] <Jessica> no reason to mess with it.. rtf or
txt works fine
- [7:09:34 PM:] <Nigel> i stand erected ;-D
- [7:09:41 PM:] <Martin> It's rtf at the mo'
- [7:09:53 PM:] <Jessica> that works for me
- [7:10:38 PM:] <Jessica> oh, and nige, they're not designing
it themselves, going to leave it to the publisher, if I understood
mark correctly... right, martin?
- [7:11:00 PM:] <Martin> Printing it out makes a HUGE difference
in one's perception. A week ago, I printed that version out and realized
the whole thing needed total reorganising. It's taken a week in my
spare time to do it.
- [7:11:13 PM:] * Nigel gonna shut up and read it in the morning ;-D
- [7:11:38 PM:] <Martin> Now it rocks! Yes, Mark is in the process
of punting it areound publishers.
- [7:11:51 PM:] <Betsy> I have often wondered if Frank would
get along with shrimp.
- [7:12:03 PM:] <Betsy> (Yes, I know, you thought we were done
with that topic)
- [7:12:31 PM:] <craig> Betsy, Frank is? (Memory is failing
me at the moment)
- [7:12:36 PM:] <Betsy> CAE
- [7:12:54 PM:] <craig> I don't see any reason why not, he might
chase them around a bit tho.
- [7:13:14 PM:] <Betsy> I just don't want to provide him with
really expensive snacks.
- [7:13:27 PM:] <craig> Understandable.
- [7:14:11 PM:] <Betsy> I also just discovered several snail
carcasses at the top of my tank- either hannibal the snail eating
albino barb has been busy today or I'm beginning to have a problem.
- [7:14:18 PM:] <craig> Martin, the new l. disparis is getting
on fine BTW..
- [7:17:13 PM:] <craig> Might as well close up shop here and
head on back to #badmanschat for the evening.
- [7:17:49 PM:] <craig> Thanks for coming everyone. :-D